Overpriced applications/tags. The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence.

I started hunting in 1965 when I lived and was going to college in Colorado. Back then we had one concurrent deer and elk season and tags were OTC and sold through the season.

I moved from Colorado to Montana in the mid '70s and in my first 13 years here I was lucky enough to have drawn 1 bighorn ram tag, 2 moose and 2 goat tags. Since then, and since 2000 with maximum "bonus" points, I've aplied and not drawn 37 years for another moose tag, 42 years for another ram tag, and 46 years for another goat tag. Up until 10 to 15 years ago I drew a Montana antelope tag almost every year. I drew my last antelope tag 3 years ago.

I grew up with Outdoor Life and Field and Stream as the major hunting magazines and only 1 or 2 hunting and fishing TV shows. Now there are dozens of hunting magazines, at least 3 major hunting and fishing TV channels, who know how many social media hunting forums (like Rokslide) on the internet, and major hunting clubs like SCI, DSC, and others that promote hunting.

These have sparked the interest of tens of thousands of hunters to the world of hunting beyond just whitetail deer.

When I drew my first mountain goat tag, I had a 25% chance of drawing a tag in that unit. Now that unit is no longer open and in other units you can have only a fraction of 1% chance of drawing a tag.

The problem is that more people are hunting, and more people want to hunt more than just a whitetail deer. Game departments have an increasing problem of a limited number of animals and an almost unlimited demand to hunt them. The more exotic species in the Western states are being overwhelmed with non-resident hunters. One way that these game departments are mitigating this problem is by raising the costs and especially for the non-residents. I don't see hunting opportunities getting any better.
 
It’s a really good point about man against man. The race to the animals has become absolutely ridiculous. My intent with points has always been so I could hunt units that were less crowded more so than for trophy potential.
That's why, if I go again, and I may - hunt out west, it will be with a guide on private property.

That opening day bum rush is a load of crap. And the late-start/new hunters now think it is normal. It wasn't until this latest age of hunting. Sadly, it is a shit show in so many places. That includes public where I live and wait 3-5 yrs to hunt a 3-5 day quota.

My last public land DIY hunt was to include climbing a mesa and hunting a couple side islands where the bucks had been hanging. There were 3 of us. At first light a truck goes roaring up a closed road and drops off like 4 guys on top - and they were literally running after something before we even got across the first meadow. WTF?

Was similar to DIY hunt couple years earlier for antelope. Might as well have dropped a raceway start flag and get them going properly - could listen them stomping the gas to get to next public, and the one after.

Not using 5-10 pts to do that chit.
 
I started hunting in 1965 when I lived and was going to college in Colorado. Back then we had one concurrent deer and elk season and tags were OTC and sold through the season.

I moved from Colorado to Montana in the mid '70s and in my first 13 years here I was lucky enough to have drawn 1 bighorn ram tag, 2 moose and 2 goat tags. Since then, and since 2000 with maximum "bonus" points, I've aplied and not drawn 37 years for another moose tag, 42 years for another ram tag, and 46 years for another goat tag. Up until 10 to 15 years ago I drew a Montana antelope tag almost every year. I drew my last antelope tag 3 years ago.

I grew up with Outdoor Life and Field and Stream as the major hunting magazines and only 1 or 2 hunting and fishing TV shows. Now there are dozens of hunting magazines, at least 3 major hunting and fishing TV channels, who know how many social media hunting forums (like Rokslide) on the internet, and major hunting clubs like SCI, DSC, and others that promote hunting.

These have sparked the interest of tens of thousands of hunters to the world of hunting beyond just whitetail deer.

When I drew my first mountain goat tag, I had a 25% chance of drawing a tag in that unit. Now that unit is no longer open and in other units you can have only a fraction of 1% chance of drawing a tag.

The problem is that more people are hunting, and more people want to hunt more than just a whitetail deer. Game departments have an increasing problem of a limited number of animals and an almost unlimited demand to hunt them. The more exotic species in the Western states are being overwhelmed with non-resident hunters. One way that these game departments are mitigating this problem is by raising the costs and especially for the non-residents. I don't see hunting opportunities getting any better.

Very well said. Add in the issue that there are literally 2x the number of people in the US today than there were in 1960, and you get extra pressures of both more hunters in absolute terms just from that population increase, along with the community growth, homebuilding, and habitat loss that comes from those raw numbers of new people across the US.
 
With some notable exceptions I can identify somewhat with most of the perspectives and observations being offered. When I started hunting the west around the turn of the century (makes me sound old) I consciously avoided the points game. Idaho, Wyoming, and Colorado- places I hunted were far from premier units but offered OTC or zero point tags.
Life took me in other directions from 2012-2022 and man, got a rude awakening when I tried to go hunting again. I jumped into points big time and There’s lot I dislike about it, including the cost. I have access to more hunting, and decent hunting at that, in my home state but I can’t hunt elk, mule deer, or antelope and our “wilderness areas” are a joke.
I love the west and I love to hunt. Acquired points can no longer guarantee me a trophy animal in an incrowded area but if I stay focused points will help me plan and execute western hunts for the foreseeable future so for now I’m going to keep buying them.
 
With some notable exceptions I can identify somewhat with most of the perspectives and observations being offered. When I started hunting the west around the turn of the century (makes me sound old) I consciously avoided the points game. Idaho, Wyoming, and Colorado- places I hunted were far from premier units but offered OTC or zero point tags.
Life took me in other directions from 2012-2022 and man, got a rude awakening when I tried to go hunting again. I jumped into points big time and There’s lot I dislike about it, including the cost. I have access to more hunting, and decent hunting at that, in my home state but I can’t hunt elk, mule deer, or antelope and our “wilderness areas” are a joke.
I love the west and I love to hunt. Acquired points can no longer guarantee me a trophy animal in an incrowded area but if I stay focused points will help me plan and execute western hunts for the foreseeable future so for now I’m going to keep buying them.
There are only so many options. I'm collecting them so that when I'm ready to hunt out west again, if ever, I'll be able to get a tag and go instead of wondering what just happened and why I can't go.
 
I've always look at out of state hunts as an adventure. I'm looking for big animals, but killing something is not needed for me to have a great time. I love backpacking into areas I would otherwise never see, watching bears gorge on acorns in the desert, watch bighorn sheep rutting for hours. I'm paying for the experience and every fall it's been worth every penny.
 
I've always look at out of state hunts as an adventure. I'm looking for big animals, but killing something is not needed for me to have a great time. I love backpacking into areas I would otherwise never see, watching bears gorge on acorns in the desert, watch bighorn sheep rutting for hours. I'm paying for the experience and every fall it's been worth every penny.
People will tell you that you can do all those things without a rifle or a tag. And it’s true. But for me, personally, seeing those things when I’m hiking or camping just isn’t the same. It’s still awesome, and not to be taken for granted, but it’s an incomplete experience for me. Perhaps it’s a personal shortcoming but when I hike I feel like an observer. When I hunt, whether I kill or not, I have a completely different feeling of engagement.
 
The price increases are frustrating. But the constant rule changing and moving of the goal post is the most irritating.

I’ll play the game as long as I can. Be interesting to see where it is in ten years.

I also find it kind of crazy how much money the states are collecting for essentially nothing (points).
Best ponzi scam going currently
 
People will tell you that you can do all those things without a rifle or a tag. And it’s true. But for me, personally, seeing those things when I’m hiking or camping just isn’t the same. It’s still awesome, and not to be taken for granted, but it’s an incomplete experience for me. Perhaps it’s a personal shortcoming but when I hike I feel like an observer. When I hunt, whether I kill or not, I have a completely different feeling of engagement.

Experiencing different parts of the country with a tag in my opinion is the best way to experience this awesome country...its about the most american thing you can do...unfortunatly its being attacked from all angles..nobody likes freedoms including short sighted residents who think greed is the path to that instagram success most crave
 
Yes, I agree. Too expensive. Please stay home. Don’t apply for AZ and NM. Shoot throw in Colorado. Both NR and R, no need to discriminate. Hunting is too expensive. Take up knitting.

All jest aside. I agree with the frustration but some of us have to apply to other states to have the opportunity to hunt certain species (*cough* Arizona, Utah, Nevada, California *cough*). Each person has a different perspective based on their circumstances. There isn’t a one-size fits all mindset.

I’ll be damned if I’m gonna wait every 5 years to draw an archery bull tag but to each their own. AZGFD & other AZ residents don’t care about my feelings and whether I have an elk tag in my pocket or not.
 
35/35 oilfield rotation
0 debt + Business owner + air bnb’s + contract water/irrigation work (mostly for the lo tags) gets me 30+- nights out scouting and the entire archery 30+ day season if needed.

Still not enough time for me to travel to scout somewhere like say G or H in wyo to do the tag justice. Maybe someday I will figure out a way to have the time as I got enough points to draw..

Sure glad to live where I do 😉😉...
 
NV is hanging on by a thread for me too. Drew a mule deer tag there last year and even with i think 10 elk points now the odds of never drawing an elk tag there seem higher than drawing if I keep applying the next 20 years.
 
We have friends here with 30 plus points and still no tags. Of course they are for premium areas but they will all be to old if they ever get drawn the next 20 or 30 years. No thanks I'll take a cow tag:sneaky:
 
NV is hanging on by a thread for me too. Drew a mule deer tag there last year and even with i think 10 elk points now the odds of never drawing an elk tag there seem higher than drawing if I keep applying the next 20 years.
Just did my NV app and I have very mixed feelings on how to proceed with NV.
 
NV is hanging on by a thread for me too. Drew a mule deer tag there last year and even with i think 10 elk points now the odds of never drawing an elk tag there seem higher than drawing if I keep applying the next 20 years.
Pretty much.
I'd be way better off hunting general units in a bunch of other states 10 times over that time frame and I'd likely kill multiple bulls bigger than the one I would end up with in Nevada. It doesn't make any sense. A bunch of these States don't make any sense.
 
I started hunting in 1965 when I lived and was going to college in Colorado. Back then we had one concurrent deer and elk season and tags were OTC and sold through the season.

I moved from Colorado to Montana in the mid '70s and in my first 13 years here I was lucky enough to have drawn 1 bighorn ram tag, 2 moose and 2 goat tags. Since then, and since 2000 with maximum "bonus" points, I've aplied and not drawn 37 years for another moose tag, 42 years for another ram tag, and 46 years for another goat tag. Up until 10 to 15 years ago I drew a Montana antelope tag almost every year. I drew my last antelope tag 3 years ago.

I grew up with Outdoor Life and Field and Stream as the major hunting magazines and only 1 or 2 hunting and fishing TV shows. Now there are dozens of hunting magazines, at least 3 major hunting and fishing TV channels, who know how many social media hunting forums (like Rokslide) on the internet, and major hunting clubs like SCI, DSC, and others that promote hunting.

These have sparked the interest of tens of thousands of hunters to the world of hunting beyond just whitetail deer.

When I drew my first mountain goat tag, I had a 25% chance of drawing a tag in that unit. Now that unit is no longer open and in other units you can have only a fraction of 1% chance of drawing a tag.

The problem is that more people are hunting, and more people want to hunt more than just a whitetail deer. Game departments have an increasing problem of a limited number of animals and an almost unlimited demand to hunt them. The more exotic species in the Western states are being overwhelmed with non-resident hunters. One way that these game departments are mitigating this problem is by raising the costs and especially for the non-residents. I don't see hunting opportunities getting any better.
This. 37 years no moose tag, 42 years no sheep tag, 46 years no goat tag. As a RESIDENT. Folks don't understand but lots of these tags out here are figments of their imagination. Whoosie doosies.. fugazies.. they don't exist. The average person will not live long enough to draw a lot of these premium tags.

So is it insanity for me to put in for a 0.5% draw hunt hunt in New Mexico knowing that on average, I would draw once every 200 years at current odds? Or SOMEONE has to draw right?
 
So is it insanity for me to put in for a 0.5% draw hunt hunt in New Mexico knowing that on average, I would draw once every 200 years at current odds? Or SOMEONE has to draw right?
It’s a lottery ticket to hunt, why is that insane?

Our group has drawn a >5% tag twice.
 
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