Over crowded Colorado units getting worse

[orionthehunter1]

Were you at the Durango meeting when I asked/made a public statement about harvest reporting? The meeting concerning SW units being limited during archery. I am a trained scientist and all I could think of was that we'll never have a true management answer as long as the CPW officers have to defend a system that even they probably don't even "believe" in. Kind if a rough night. Hasn't gotten much better.

I was in NM for archery season this year. I have a 3rd season cow tag for CO. Maybe I'll get an OTC bull for 3rd as well. But, I expect crickets out there. 4th will be a ghost town. I have traditionally hunted out of state the last 7 years during archery as I've been burning my points everywhere else. Snow and later season dates really scare the S*&T out of other hunters. I can't blame them, it gets real around Nov 11th for most of CO. In fact, it's snowing at my house right now! 9300'.

Yes I was with a buddy and my kids. I remember that question and I believe CPW's response was that their computer models were better than harvest reporting?

 

[CoStick]

There are many states with elk, broaden horizons, hunt other places. If people have been coming here for decades, let some of the newer hunters enjoy the resources.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I see your point but you could also look on the bright side of things. At least there are people interested in hunting. That keeps hunting an option for all of us. I believe hunting is trendy currently and worry about when the trend dies off. It's easy for things like hunting to be taken away when no one's looking.

While it is still trendy I'd encourage people to look at preserving your right to hunt. Your grandkids might thank you for it.

https://ballotpedia.org/Uta

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I believe I was at that meeting. At the fairgrounds, right?

yep. It was more of officers passing info than it was really constructive public input.

What’s funny, for example, is they allocated 1800 tags for 75/751. Once the total Was sold for 2019, they made that the quota for 2020. So, was it really limited????
I guess since we have increasing numbers of archery hunters, in effect it put a cap on the number of hunters allowed in a limited unit.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Yes I was with a buddy and my kids. I remember that question and I believe CPW's response was that their computer models were better than harvest reporting?

Yep. Claimed that other states subscribe to CO’s method. The only method I trust is mando reporting. Period

 

[Kwa_bena]

I believe hunting is trendy currently and worry about when the trend dies off.

Any predicitions on this? That's what I'm seeing right now. I'm giving it until the end of the pandemic, whenever that happens.

 

[5MilesBack]

Any predicitions on this? That's what I'm seeing right now. I'm giving it until the end of the pandemic, whenever that happens.

It used to be that the average for first time elk bowhunters was 7 years for their first bull kill. That's a lot of time, effort, and investment into a sport before any success. I'm sure many drop out long before that. But with the internet and all that's out there these days.......the learning curve has been greatly shortened, which means that success is most likely much quicker. Success has a way of bringing people back for more. We may not see much of a drop off if any from this point. The crowding was a problem even before the pandemic.

 

[ahlgringo]

It used to be that the average for first time elk bowhunters was 7 years for their first bull kill. That's a lot of time, effort, and investment into a sport before any success. I'm sure many drop out long before that. But with the internet and all that's out there these days.......the learning curve has been greatly shortened, which means that success is most likely much quicker. Success has a way of bringing people back for more. We may not see much of a drop off if any from this point. The crowding was a problem even before the pandemic.

Maybe, I would subscribe to this sentiment if all other things ie pressure remained constant. I feel now that the main factor affecting success is overcrowding. We all know hunting pressured vs unpressured elk is 2 different games. Just because you have the knowledge of how its supposed to be done, doesn't guarantee success. Success rates have not skyrocketed through the onslaught of available online learning tools- they have remained constant or decreased. I would be interested in what the current "average" years it takes to be successful in otc units is, but I will bet its not less than 5.

I am still holding onto some hope that we will have a decline in overall hunter numbers after this "fad" runs its course.

 

[TraderMike]

Yes I was with a buddy and my kids. I remember that question and I believe CPW's response was that their computer models were better than harvest reporting?

The models are better than harvest reporting? Laughable. I believe they don't want accurate harvest data, for any number of reasons, not the least of which is hard evidence regarding CPW's management performance.
I believe it was last winter or early spring I watched an assanine video CPW posted showing their herd counting technique which included low level flights over wintering herds. Of course, the herds being counted were running in a flat-out panic. In late winter. Stressing the hell out of the elk. Now I am no wildlife biologist but I have a basic concept of high resolution photography and there is no way I am going to believe that pictures taken from a sufficient distance (so as not to terrify the elk) couldn't suffice for CPW's count. My point in mentioning this event is to point out yet another instance of inept management policy from the shit show that is CPW.

 

[5MilesBack]

I am still holding onto some hope that we will have a decline in overall hunter numbers after this "fad" runs its course.

I used to think the same thing about golf and fly fishing.......but neither has let up in regards to crowding. Perhaps there is just a constant turnover with some dropping out and new ones coming in????? Or perhaps we're just getting so many people moving to these western states that it's the new norm. Locally they reported that Colorado Springs grew by 69,000 people in 2020.........during Covid. Those kinds of numbers don't bode well for decreasing any crowd.

 

[cnelk]

The models are better than harvest reporting? Laughable. I believe they don't want accurate harvest data, for any number of reasons, not the least of which is hard evidence regarding CPW's management performance.
I believe it was last winter or early spring I watched an assanine video CPW posted showing their herd counting technique which included low level flights over wintering herds. Of course, the herds being counted were running in a flat-out panic. In late winter. Stressing the hell out of the elk. Now I am no wildlife biologist but I have a basic concept of high resolution photography and there is no way I am going to believe that pictures taken from a sufficient distance (so as not to terrify the elk) couldn't suffice for CPW's count. My point in mentioning this event is to point out yet another instance of inept management policy from the shit show that is CPW.

Here ya go

 

[trophyhill]

After a lot of thought on this after last seasons hunt 2020, I’ve come to accept it and told myself this year “I’m not gonna worry about the pressure and just go out and have fun” which I did. I also had to make a major adjustment. I had packed my camp in with 14 days of food. Hunting the first 2 weekends, I’d seen more elk than last years full month long hunt. Hunted every day last year run and gun style mostly.

anyway when I took the last 2 weeks off work and hiked in to my camp, after 3 and a half days of not seeing any elk or fresh sign like the previous weekends. I had a decision to make. And after talking to a hunter I ran into who said there were him and 5 others camped at the head of the drainage above, my decision was made to pack up and move, go find another place to hunt.

ended up doing truck camp for the last week and a half in a place I’d scouted in 2009. Long before OnX. I totally switched game plans by doing this but suddenly I was into elk every day for the rest of the hunt. Totally off the hook and a lot more than I expected when it was all said and done!

 

[Sako76]

I don't hunt archery, I hunt third combined rifle in a very popular OTC unit, there is a lot of BLM with good access that no one hunts! It seems to me that people are hunting the easy access areas and not going over maps or OnX.

 

[Stalker69]

It’s not only more people hunting, it’s just as much or more so the rate we are losing hunting grounds ! Were we used to hunt 20-30, even 10 years ago, there are houses, shopping centers, paved roads, street lights etc. Animals are NEVER EVER returning to those areas. The mass building going on is destroying wildlife habitat at a very rapid rate, never to return. If hunters and antis could realize this, together we could at least slow it down. Hunting is doomed, for the generations to come. We are truly trashing this planet, at a faster and faster rate. I have given up hunting otc, and will gladly wait 4-8 years to draw a tag. If they would make it draw only, and limit the number of hunters it would be great. But they won’t ever do that do to “losing “ money.

 

[CoStick]

It’s not only more people hunting, it’s just as much or more so the rate we are losing hunting grounds ! Were we used to hunt 20-30, even 10 years ago, there are houses, shooting centers, paved roads, street lights etc. Animals are NEVER EVER returning to those areas. The mass building going on is destroying wildlife habitat at a very rapid rate, never to return. If hunters and antis could realize this, together we could at least slow it down. Hunting is doomed, for generations to come. We are truly trashing this planet, at a faster and faster rate.

I agree but common sentiment I have read in regards to environment amongst sportsmen is it shouldn’t slow down or impact economic gains or jobs.

 

[Stalker69]

I guess I don’t get it, ( I will use smaller numbers). So if they can sell 1000 tags otc, knowing that many people will push the animals else where, and every body will be running into each other, and only a handful will be successful, and they will make xxxxxxx amount of money. As to selling 50 tags and most likely those people will be much more successful. Do to the fact they had to apply for the lic., takes several years to draw, you will get the more serious hunters. But they will only make xxxx dollars. I don’t see how that can not influence the “ economic impact “. Not only lic. but gas, liquor stores, sporting goods have a part in it.

 

[Jbenson]

I agree with this and I'm a non-resident myself. At least make some of the units a draw for non-residents and OTC for residents unless they need the population in that area to go down.

It's obviously all about the money. The state knows that a huge majority of hunters realistically aren't going to kill anything. So they make piles and piles of free cash selling tags to anyone who wants them (especially non residents) and the wildlife numbers still stay at objective because most hunters don't kill. Genius for them, frustrating for serious hunters dealing with the clowns and the crowds.

 

[CoStick]

It's obviously all about the money. The state knows that a huge majority of hunters realistically aren't going to kill anything. So they make piles and piles of free cash selling tags to anyone who wants them (especially non residents) and the wildlife numbers still stay at objective because most hunters don't kill. Genius for them, frustrating for serious hunters dealing with the clowns and the crowds.

Serious hunters still seem to fill their tabs.

 

[isItFallYet]

Everyone is wishing there were less hunters. Yet everyone is coming to the same websites to post about wishing there were less hunters. It’s a bit asinine. I think we need more hunters in these crazy days. ...even if it means more people in my favorite spots.

 

[Jbenson]

Serious hunters still seem to fill their tabs.

I completely agree. My point was just that the reason the state sells so many tags is for the income because they know 90% of people won't fill tags. Free money. IMO

 

[Beendare]

My

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