Outdoor companies getting PPP loans

[Antarctica]

Alright I’ll lay it out there for you given your don’t have the ability to read financial statements, nor even look at most recent financials.

Approximately $59M of RMEF’s $104M assets are tied up in endowments, which are very specific for their use. They simply can’t use those funds for anything they want, and must be used for mission related work...not necessary expenses like G&A expense, business insurance, IT, legal etc.

Another $15 M is tied up in buildings/land value, artwork etc.

So in actuality, this really leaves the $20M in cash they have. Net that with the current liabilities on the books, that is free cash flow of $14M.

Taking a look at the P&L , you’ll see they had a net banquet season last year of about $14M.

So all of a sudden, your banquet revenue goes from an expected $14M to $-0-, what do you think happens to that cash? That isn’t counting the memberships that start to dry up as many of these are renewed at banquets, lower amounts of planned giving, fewer major gifts etc.

The RMEF certainly had a strong set of financials going into this, but it is ignorant to say they didn’t have a justification for the PPP loan.

For the record - I most certainly do have the ability to read financial statements. I certainly delved into it more than anyone else did in this thread. Not to the level that you did because I simply don't have the time or reason to. You did, and its obvious, given its your first post, that you more than likely have a vested interest in RMEF and needed to join this forum to defend them - nothing wrong with that.

All that said, thank you for that perspective. Its a legitimate argument that doesn't necessarily come out reading a financial statement, although I doubt you gathered that perspective from a financial statement alone. While you may be vested in and familiar with RMEF, I'm on sound ground stating that I know how many, if not most, non-profits operate and the scam they run. If you'll go back to my first post, I never said there was not a legitimate reason RMEF might have taken such a large loan - although one could see that there may be ilegitimate reasons for doing so.

All that aside - welcome to the forum and a good first post. I hope you continue with the intent of participating and not just a one off to defend your favorite organization.

 

[hunttoeat]

For the record - I most certainly do have the ability to read financial statements. I certainly delved into it more than anyone else did in this thread. Not to the level that you did because I simply don't have the time or reason to. You did, and its obvious, given its your first post, that you more than likely have a vested interest in RMEF and needed to join this forum to defend them - nothing wrong with that.

All that said, thank you for that perspective. Its a legitimate argument that doesn't necessarily come out reading a financial statement, although I doubt you gathered that perspective from a financial statement alone. While you may be vested in and familiar with RMEF, I'm on sound ground stating that I know how many, if not most, non-profits operate and the scam they run. If you'll go back to my first post, I never said there was not a legitimate reason RMEF might have taken such a large loan - although one could see that there may be ilegitimate reasons for doing so.

All that aside - welcome to the forum and a good first post. I hope you continue with the intent of participating and not just a one off to defend your favorite organization.

long time listener. First time caller

I work as a financial analyst. Poster you just critiqued hit the nail right on the head....actually it took about 10 minutes to look at the financials and come to the same conclusion, about the same time (and lack there of in your case) that you’ve spent critiquing the decision of RMEF without doing proper research.

I’m a life member and donor of the RMEF. Knowing the situation they had with Covid and banquets being cancelled, I would have been furious if an organization I contributed to had management who were incompetent and didn’t apply for these funds.

RMEF taking the funds clearly shows they are well managed and best suited to be a good steward of your money. You’re an idiot if you actually think they shouldn’t have taken these funds. What did you want them to do? Lay-off a bunch of people? Burn through cash, which was contributed to them by members and could be used for mission work, instead of taking government money which they qualified for in the first place?

 

[DWhitt]

Its a fine line. Im glad people potentially kept their jobs because of it. I am also certain many people took advantage and are still laughing about the free money. A lot of companies with deep pockets got these loans.

When you say take advantage what do you mean? As a company we took it. Did we have to...No! People like to get political when its in there favor but our Governor shut our state down for other than essential workers. They are still people that hasn't went back to work over 3 months now. So when you do not know back in march and April how this push of the government will effect your business and the state government has no clue on a time table to let these people go back to work, you have to prepare for the worst to protect your employees. Im sure most of these companies on this list had the exact mindset as us. They didn't know how all these state with liberal governors would kill their state's economies which therefor would slow down on people spending money on stuff other than things they might need to survive if the whole dang world shut down. I guess they should have just laid a bunch of people off and then there would have been a thread on here about these sorry a$$ outdoor-hunting companies that laid off all these people.

 

[Graves14]

Of all the foolish things our government spends billions on, this is not one I’m worried about. I am a Libertarian. But, I certainly took advantage of the government student loans, while in college and grad school. To quote Doc Holliday, “It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds.”

Im not sure what I like more about this post, the Doc Holliday quote or your Opus X Avatar photo!

 

[Sccritterkiller]

I would rather see these outdoors companies get the PPP than all these hedge fund companies...Last time I checked the stock market never closed during Covid...financial services/advice isnt usually done face to face..the market went down but that happens all the time. I dont think Covid upended finacial services as much as the PPP paypout indicates it did.

Also let's be honest you really didn't have to prove a hardship unless you wanted over 2mil...Just like any government program it is horribly inefficient and ripe with abuse. Goverment programs only serve those that administer it...I dont know an of issue government programs have solved...The programs just keep getting bigger... That's what cracks me up about this whole thing..name me one government program that is effective and well run...why folks thought this program will be different is beyond me.

 

[MattB]

I don't understand the notion of calling out companies for participating in a program designed to save jobs. The program was not designed to be needs-based, contrary to what a number folks are intimating.

 

[dogman11]

I took the PPP and felt like a Democrat for the seven seconds I signed it and handed back to the bank to deposit!!!!

 

[flatlanderhuffandpuff]

I was in on the decision at our company to pass on the PPP. We could have received an astonishing amount of money and met the criteria. We were deemed essential and never missed a day of work. We all felt that it was dishonest and nothing is free.

I have no doubt that we will be paying for all the other companies who took the money anyway, I would rather be able to sleep at night.

I know people I respect who took the money without needing it. It's no different than any other big Gov program. Good intentions with potentially disastrous results.

10 years from now I suspect we will wish those checks were never signed.

 

[h2so4]

How the hell does the mule deer Foundation have 300 employees?

How does RMEF have half the people and get more than 2x the cash?

Edit- wow. Should really read all the pages before commenting.

 

[downsouth175]

I'm an owner in what would be considered a medium to large heavy civil construction company in Nevada. We were deemed essential and have been working non-stop. As some other have mentioned, we also would have qualified but passed on the PPP program. I see some of my competition on the list of businesses that have received loans and it has me scratching my head. Heavy civil construction in Nevada is a small world. We all bid the same projects, know who gets them, and know each others basic work loads. Some of these guys have their books loaded up for over a year and a half, they will not see a slow-down or layoffs anytime soon. Definitely raises eyebrows. When I read the requirements for forgiveness it looks as if these loans will be forgiven if they dispense of them correctly per the requirements, even if they would have already been making these payroll payments and were not directly impact from COVID. I'm curious how much auditing will truly go into this. Maybe I'm just a dumb dumb that should have went after the money, but as others have said there were way more deserving people and I can sleep at night I guess.

 

[Clarktar]

Company I work for got money, so did a friends. Neither had laid off anybody or seen any downturn in business. All they had to do was use the money for payroll. Basically deposit it and write checks which would have been written anyway. If your bank was on top of it, you were in; notice the same utah bank for several companies.

Same with my employer. Personally I felt like we shouldn't have gotten the money as we did not need it. But, I just kept working like I know how.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[EastCoaster]

Not sure it is a handout when you are forced to shut down for the benefit of others.

I own a business that experienced exactly that. When The government tells you that you can no longer operate or the industry you service can no longer operate.......it doesn’t leave you much of a choice. Keeping My people employed is worth more than my pride of not taking the governments money.

 

[flatlanderhuffandpuff]

I own a business that experienced exactly that. When The government tells you that you can no longer operate or the industry you service can no longer operate.......it doesn’t leave you much of a choice. Keeping My people employed is worth more than my pride of not taking the governments money.

I absolutely agree that if the Gov is going to force you to close "they" need to make up the difference. My problem with it is how clumsily it was undertaken.

It was a surgery with a machete.

There a lot of people who are sitting on a new pile of cash that they didn't need and they didn't earn.

 

[Thunderer]

I'm an owner in what would be considered a medium to large heavy civil construction company in Nevada. We were deemed essential and have been working non-stop. As some other have mentioned, we also would have qualified but passed on the PPP program. I see some of my competition on the list of businesses that have received loans and it has me scratching my head. Heavy civil construction in Nevada is a small world. We all bid the same projects, know who gets them, and know each others basic work loads. Some of these guys have their books loaded up for over a year and a half, they will not see a slow-down or layoffs anytime soon. Definitely raises eyebrows. When I read the requirements for forgiveness it looks as if these loans will be forgiven if they dispense of them correctly per the requirements, even if they would have already been making these payroll payments and were not directly impact from COVID. I'm curious how much auditing will truly go into this. Maybe I'm just a dumb dumb that should have went after the money, but as others have said there were way more deserving people and I can sleep at night I guess.

Same thing with the heavy civil contractors in San Diego and LA. I know of a few companies, mostly medium-size, purposely holding back on submitting monthly pay estimates to owners so they can show a loss of revenue to get their loans forgiven. The fraud is rampant.