Outdoor companies getting PPP loans

[Kbhillhunter]

The only reason to be upset with these companies taking PPP loans is if we found out they had layoffs despite taking the loans. Otherwise this is a garbage take.

 

[Antarctica]

It is about employees, which RMEF has all over the country, how do you think these employees are doing fundraisers for each chapter while everything is shut down? This isn’t about financials as was previously stated, it’s about not laying off people.

I would think they'd be using the $71M in (2105) assets I noted above to pay employees.

 

[Antarctica]

The only reason to be upset with these companies taking PPP loans is if we found out they had layoffs despite taking the loans. Otherwise this is a garbage take.

I don't consider the money I pay in taxes garbage.

 

[tdhanses]

I would think they'd be using the $71M in (2105) assets I noted above to pay employees.

What is their mission? Also no they wouldn’t, they would of had layoffs, just like all the companies not on the list, also not all assets are cash.

 

[Brendan]

also not all assets are cash.

Exactly, you probably had a lot of companies facing uncertain future, and having cash on hand is a great way to mitigate risk, even if you don't end up using it and pay it back. Guaranteed that there are plenty of otherwise healthy companies with lots of "assets" but if they're not liquid, forced closures could easily put them in trouble.

If I was a business owner eligible for one of these, I would have 100% taken the loan..

 

[Kbhillhunter]

I don't consider the money I pay in taxes garbage.

Same here. I'm not making a statement on the appropriateness of the loan program. The assumption that someone knows how any of these specific companies were directly or indirectly impacted financially is garbage.

 

[WCB]

Some people here need take a accounting class...Assets does not mean cash. The position some of these companies are in is mostly not due to bad business practices but an unpredictable situation with really no clear end in sight.

 

[Antarctica]

What is their mission? Also no they wouldn’t, they would of had layoffs, just like all the companies not on the list, also not all assets are cash.

Did you read my first post? Did I not address the liquidity (or lack thereof) of those assets possibly being a valid reason to take the loan? Are you hell bent on defending it? If you work for RMEF and are glad they took the loan that's fine.

The point is they are sitting on a tremendous amount of assets, some portion of which could certainly be used to pay employees if that's what they want to do. In my view (and I don't have a perfect view of their situation as I indicated in the first post) taking a govt loan for 2-5M when you're sitting on 71+M in assets is questionable.

I just checked their site. I didn't see any obvious news item that said "Just so you know your donating to an organization that is up front and honest about its financials and your donations, here's why we took a $2-5M loan when we have $71M+ in assets."

 

[Antarctica]

Per RMEF's 2019 financial statement on their website (which is great - upstanding and transparent), they closed 2019 with $20M in cash and $60M in investments, which appear to be separate from property, etc that is not liquid.

Looks like they run about 3.6M in expenses per month of which $725 is salaries.

 

[ODB]

Some people here need take a accounting class...Assets does not mean cash. The position some of these companies are in is mostly not due to bad business practices but an unpredictable situation with really no clear end in sight.

You mean the almost-trillionaire Bezos doesn’t have all that money in stacks around his crib?

 

[tdhanses]

Per RMEF's 2019 financial statement on their website (which is great - upstanding and transparent), they closed 2019 with $20M in cash and $60M in investments, which appear to be separate from property, etc that is not liquid.

Well then don’t support a non profit conservation group. Lets say you were fired, will you sell your house, cash out a 401k or take unemployment? Will you dispose of all your assets and then when you get a new job or income work on getting everything back just to not take a handout that could have kept you afloat?

The point of these programs is to keep people and companies from having to offload assets etc so that they don’t get to a point where they can’t come back. Do you think there are no expenses to pay other then payroll while no revenue is coming in? Do you know how RMEF brings in rev? I don’t work for them but I fully agree with them getting the loan if they qualified, which seems they did.

There is more to financials then assets.

 

[tdhanses]

You mean the almost-trillionaire Bezos doesn’t have all that money in stacks around his crib?

I hear he has a vault full of gold he swims in

 

[Dos Perros]

I'm okay with these companies receiving funding (that's what this is) if they do the right thing. And that differs for each company. Most will, some won't. It's tough to know who's who when you're handing out the money. But you can be certain that many absolutely need it.

 

[Poser]

Here’s a good one. The Ayn Rand Institute was approved for a PPP loaf of up to 1 million dollars.

John Galt needs a check from the government.

 

[ODB]

I hear he has a vault full of gold he swims in

Ha! I’ve actually been to his house (the outside at least) in Seattle for some business. Didn’t see any gold or cash!

 

[Deplorable77]

Your ok with a bunch of biologist and people who do habitat restoration loosing their jobs because they cant get PPP but not "normal blue collar folk" who work for companies that can? You ok with companies that derive the majority of income from banquets and conventions having their functions canceled for the "betterment of public health" and then telling them they don't qualify?

Worded that way, yup I'm definitely good with it.

 

[Brado16]

Easy for some to complain about PPP money going to business ABC or 123. Many (not all) of these people complaning dont know the burden of being a business owner nor have the slightest clue about assets on a balance sheet vs cashflow and liquidity. Nor do they understand the responsiblity of job creation for your employees whom support their families, pay their Bill's and put food on the table from these jobs. Lastly, they also dont realize everything else that goes into being a business owner, you go home at 5pm on Friday and work is off your radar until Monday morning where as being an owner/partner, your work related issues/deliemas/financial stress come home with you every night and weekend. So I guess shame on business owners, big or small for taking a "Handout" as you call it. I call it supporting employees whom are not lazy and willing to work compared to the lazy SOBs living off welfare because they are "Entitled" to it. Just wish we could find a larger "pool" of hard working dependable employees.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[NYyotekiller]

Having personally dealt with and benefited from the PPP loans it’s very scary how much RMEF received to be honest here.

Being a part owner of an Engineering/Land Surveying firm we had to learn all the ins and outs of this program before going forward with it. It was first come first serve and a lot of the small companies that weren’t educated were hung out to dry and received nothing. The amounts these companies received were directly related to your employees salaries and your expenses and these costs had to be proven and documented.

We only have about a 25% the number of employees that RMEF Has but even if they only received 2 million they got a whole metric crap ton more than a business full of Licensed Professionals that make more than most others do.

Not sure how I feel on this one as I‘ve been a supporter of RMEF for quite some time now.

 

[orionthehunter1]

why does an outfitter (wade lemon hunting) need it. Hunting season isn't affected, I'm sure all his guys were able to go scout seems like b.s. Same with go hunt and eastmans isn't most of their content digital? I don't see how any of them couldn't work from home or alternate at the office. With so many people sitting at home I doubt either of their subscription numbers went down.

 

[mthuntcpa]

I would think they'd be using the $71M in (2105) assets I noted above to pay employees.

Alright I’ll lay it out there for you given your don’t have the ability to read financial statements, nor even look at most recent financials.

Approximately $59M of RMEF’s $104M assets are tied up in endowments, which are very specific for their use. They simply can’t use those funds for anything they want, and must be used for mission related work...not necessary expenses like G&A expense, business insurance, IT, legal etc.

Another $15 M is tied up in buildings/land value, artwork etc.

So in actuality, this really leaves the $20M in cash they have. Net that with the current liabilities on the books, that is free cash flow of $14M.

Taking a look at the P&L , you’ll see they had a net banquet season last year of about $14M.

So all of a sudden, your banquet revenue goes from an expected $14M to $-0-, what do you think happens to that cash? That isn’t counting the memberships that start to dry up as many of these are renewed at banquets, lower amounts of planned giving, fewer major gifts etc.

The RMEF certainly had a strong set of financials going into this, but it is ignorant to say they didn’t have a justification for the PPP loan.