OSHA has officially released their ETS for Covid

[peterk123]

Until Americans take a firm stand, meaning politicians fear for their lives, this is only going to get a lot worse. As others have mentioned above, I am astounded that so many people are perfectly fine with what is happening. I chalk it up to lack of education, specifically history. My parents escaped from this crap 55 years ago. The pain that is coming our way is unimaginable to the the average American.

 

[flatlanderhuffandpuff]

Sure it is...they have a choice also.

Who are you talking about? The employer is being told they HAVE to do this. There is no choice in the matter. It is not the same thing.

I'm not even going to get into all the other stuff that should be repealed but this is a bridge too far.

 

[gelton]

Nope, just stating my point of view. The fact that some here lose their minds and can't contain themselves is their issue, not mine.

I'll go back to my original point - the same people who are the reason for the mandate (which I don't agree with by the way) are the ones who caused it.

Caused it how? Any data to support that statement? You don't because it doesn't exist. There is no evidence based on states that had the most restrictive lockdowns and highest % of vaxed are doing any better than those with the least restrictive.

 

[BuzzH]

Who are you talking about? The employer is being told they HAVE to do this. There is no choice in the matter. It is not the same thing.

I'm not even going to get into all the other stuff that should be repealed but this is a bridge too far.

The employers are not being forced to do anything...they have options as well.

 

[gelton]

And according to the law, employers are allowed to set conditions of employment, including things like requiring safety equipment, mandatory training, certain degrees, and yes vaccine requirements.

Except employers are NOT being allowed to set conditions of employment, OSHA is demanding they do it.

 

[BuzzH]

Except employers are NOT being allowed to set conditions of employment, OSHA is demanding they do it.

Take it to court, exercise your freedom, its how things are done in the U.S.

Sure, OSHA sets all kinds of things that are conditions of employment...try not wearing a hard hat in a construction area. Try not wearing nomex while fighting wildland fire.

You can't have employers setting or enforcing standards of job site safety...they wouldn't do it without a mandate or an enforcement agency. Fact.

 

[gelton]

Take it to court, exercise your freedom, its how things are done in the U.S.

With 19 states already filing lawsuits, it's in motion.

 

[BuzzH]

With 19 states already filing lawsuits, it's in motion.

Right, and I hope they were paying attention to Trumps appointment of Amy Coney Barrett...if they weren't they're going to get a reminder while licking wounds.

 

[Bellator12]

Wow, I wish I could say I was surprised by this but I'm not unfortunately.

 

[Newtosavage]

It's fine. I'm completely astounded that we have so many in our country that have zero problem with this and I can't understand that mentality. Yes, it's true that you have to provide information to your employer when you're hired and different jobs require different levels of personal information. I've held jobs from grocery store bagger to professional corporate management and aside from what was required for my military security clearance, never once provided more than the info required for a basic background check.

I've certainly never been asked personal medical questions as a condition of employment. And let me remind you that this is not all employers choosing to require this on their own...this is being forced on employers by the government. It is by definition, fascism. At this point, it should be obvious to anyone with even a modicum of critical thinking ability, that this is not about covid. It is about forced compliance and I vehemently disagree with it.

If we give in to this, where does it stop. Do you honestly think if people just lay down and let this happen that they won't go after companies with 50 employees next, then 20, then 10...then next it's our kids and mandatory monthly boosters.

Nope, this is my line in the sand. I do not agree with forced vaccine compliance and I won't participate in any process that ostracizes people who have made the personal, medical decision that they feel is best for themselves.

As to the safe working environment, sure people should have a safe working environment. That is what THEIR vaccine is for. If someone is not confident that is enough to protect them, then why did they get it. If it makes you comfortable, get the vaccine and all the boosters...hell get all three shots for all I care...then you can double mask and keep your distance from people. But the government, nor anyone else for that matter, has the moral authority to require anyone to inject something into their body against their wishes.

I recently finished a great book. Nothing to do with our country or this situation we find ourselves in right now, but there was part that really struck me talking about how as Americans, the virtue of disobedience has always been vital to the health of our republic.

"Defiance for it's own sake sometimes carries value and meaning, if only because power in all it's forms should not always and without question be handed what it demands."

How far we as a nation have fallen.

Let me respond to a couple of your points here -

1) "And let me remind you that this is not all employers choosing to require this on their own...this is being forced on employers by the government. It is by definition, fascism."

I don't think you have that quite right. There were employers, particularly in the health industry (but also the military), who were requiring vaccines well before Biden announced the mandate for federal employees and contractors.

2) If you think this is about forced compliance and not about public health, then I'm afraid you've bought into the conspiracy theories and there is nothing I or anyone else can say to save you from that.

3) There are places to draw a line in the sand, but when it comes to the health of our fellow citizens, that probably shouldn't be one of them. Not to mention the health of our economy. I know a lot of people who call themselves "pro-life" who right now refuse to be vaccinated. Those positions are untenable.

 

[260madman]

people are pretty wound up these days. There are checks and balances, a 3 branch system in place for a reason.

You live in Disneyland don’t you?

 

[Newtosavage]

Until Americans take a firm stand, meaning politicians fear for their lives, this is only going to get a lot worse. As others have mentioned above, I am astounded that so many people are perfectly fine with what is happening. I chalk it up to lack of education, specifically history. My parents escaped from this crap 55 years ago. The pain that is coming our way is unimaginable to the the average American.

So you support what happened on Jan. 6th then? Because that's what your comment sounds like.

 

[Jason__G]

Maybe another way to look at this...
Speed limits.
These are rules put in place by various forms of government that tell you, a private citizen how fast you can drive your own vehicle. These are not put in place for your convenience. They are there to keep one person's freedom to drive however they want, from endangering the safety of other members of the community. We all follow them. I have not seen anyone bragging about doing 65 through a school zone just to 'not comply'. We all acknowledge that some form of intervention and regulation is required to keep order on the streets. We all tolerate some level of 'sacrifice of freedom' in order to be a responsible member of society.
It appears that some of us see our obligation to our communities in a different light than others.

As for jobs requiring medical info. any job with drug testing requires medical info.

In order to go to most schools, you had to get a laundry list of vaccines that didn't exist 150 years ago. Some of you got exemptions, but most got at least some of the required vaccines without a fuss. Same with various jobs. Military still vaccinating recruits? Ever travel overseas? Some countries have their own lists of vaccines required for entry. Hunting Africa? Your doctor will give you barrage of shots before you go.
This is just another added to the list.

The only difference with the Covid vaccine is that the other ones didn't have the economy of social media.
Anger=Engagement
Engagement=Page Views
Page Views=Ad Views
Ad Views=Revenue
Therefore, Anger=Revenue....

It makes me a bit sad sometimes to see my friends worked up because the algorithm demands it. Take a hike, unplug for a week. You'll feel better. I promise.
See you in a week or so.

 

[AZ8]

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[JakeSCH]

The employers are not being forced to do anything...they have options as well.

It is still coercion...doesn't matter if you agree with the outcome or not. My company will go out of business per government changing contracts per presidential orders.

I personally believe that science should guide the general direction but each person is unique and might not fit into the mold. Politics should be left out.

Forcing my 5 year old to get a vaccine when his risk is so small is wrong. I'll let my him get vaccinated after all your kids are guinea pigs first.

 

[Newtosavage]

Sorry, I didn’t feel that someone who thinks that because an individual doesnt want to be forced to have risky vaccines injected into their bloodstream also blindly follows the orange man deserved an intellectual response.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's fair.

 

[Newtosavage]

It is still coercion...doesn't matter if you agree with the outcome or not. My company will go out of business per government changing contracts per presidential orders.

I personally believe that science should guide the general direction but each person is unique and might not fit into the mold. Politics should be left out.

Forcing my 5 year old to get a vaccine when his risk is so small is wrong. I'll let my him get vaccinated after all your kids are guinea pigs first.

Then maybe your company shouldn't have been so dependent on government contracts? I dunno.

Science should be the direction and science said we needed X% of people to wear masks and go get vaccinated to get ahead of this thing. But X+1% of people refused, so guess what happened next?

I don't agree with the mandate. There were other more productive options IMO. But the same people who are wondering "what happened to America" are not behaving like the Americans they say they respect so much - the ones who lined up for vaccines to defeat Polio and the ones who put country above self.

 

[BuzzH]

It is still coercion...doesn't matter if you agree with the outcome or not. My company will go out of business per government changing contracts per presidential orders.

I personally believe that science should guide the general direction but each person is unique and might not fit into the mold. Politics should be left out.

Forcing my 5 year old to get a vaccine when his risk is so small is wrong. I'll let my him get vaccinated after all your kids are guinea pigs first.

And, your 5 year old is not being forced to get vaccinated...

Your company going out of business is a choice also.

Live with your choices.

 

[Ratbeetle]

Let me respond to a couple of your points here -

1) "And let me remind you that this is not all employers choosing to require this on their own...this is being forced on employers by the government. It is by definition, fascism."

I don't think you have that quite right. There were employers, particularly in the health industry (but also the military), who were requiring vaccines well before Biden announced the mandate for federal employees and contractors.

2) If you think this is about forced compliance and not about public health, then I'm afraid you've bought into the conspiracy theories and there is nothing I or anyone else can say to save you from that.

3) There are places to draw a line in the sand, but when it comes to the health of our fellow citizens, that probably shouldn't be one of them. Not to mention the health of our economy. I know a lot of people who call themselves "pro-life" who right now refuse to be vaccinated. Those positions are untenable.

To point 1, you missed the part where I said ALL. Sure, some employers were requiring this but no where near enough to impact 80 million people. Before Brandon got involved, people had a choice to find an employer whose values more mirrored their own. That is no longer an option for many and will soon be the case for everyone.

As to your other points, I've gone back and forth with you enough times to know we are on opposite sides of this and neither will change the other's mind. I'm not budging on this. Have a good evening.

 

[JakeSCH]

Then maybe your company shouldn't have been so dependent on government contracts? I dunno.

Science should be the direction and science said we needed X% of people to wear masks and go get vaccinated to get ahead of this thing. But X+1% of people refused, so guess what happened next?

I don't agree with the mandate. There were other more productive options IMO. But the same people who are wondering "what happened to America" are not behaving like the Americans they say they respect so much - the ones who lined up for vaccines to defeat Polio and the ones who put country above self.

Lol it is against the law to sell outside of our government. It is what it is.

But I do not disagree. I honestly think the real issue behind all the misinformation (on both sides) is social media. The lunacy is madening.

I heard from some on the far right that 3 million illegals just crossed the border. LOL NOPE! And my other friends truly believe you will die just from getting sick...also wrong again.

It feels like I sit here in the middle of two toddlers throwing tantrums on both sides.