Opinions on the information Randy Newburg shares.

[3forks]

Good post by Idahohikker and particularly this quote.

To push back on someone many here greatly respect is not easy. There are just some glaring mistakes Randy is making and I’ll buy that it’s unintentional. The voice of public lands doesn’t need to be so commercial (even if it’s not resulting in big bucks, Randy is a walking advertisement these days for GoHunt pushing draw applications) or so cavalier about sharing information about the location of various hunts, because the result is clear—honest western hunters deal with hordes more people in certain highlighted areas and hordes more applicants. Is that what was intended or is the result just ignored?

Thanks for taking the time to compose your thoughts. I think your post represents a lot of us who have similar view points.

 

[orionthehunter1]

I remember that donut shop episode, I couldn't believe they were showing all that on a t.v. show. If people don't think that had an impact just look at the application numbers

 

[5MilesBack]

Thanks @Randy NewbergLast night after reading pages 4-6 of this, I briefly thought to myself, what would Randy say/think if he actually read all this. Having no idea you were an active member here, you can only imagine my surprise to come back to this and see a response from you.
Much appreciated. Hope to see you afield one day.

LOL. I was waiting for Randy to chime in.

 

[ODB]

Through the Freedom of Information Act, many people get copies of our film permits. Those film permit applications are very detailed with maps of where we will camp, where we will park, where we will hunt, what units we have tags for, how many in our crew, how many days, what days, contact and personal information. Why some think that is a useful manner of scouting is beyond me, but such happens a lot.

So learning/researching where others have found success is not useful? Given this ONx Maps, Google Earth, GPS-waypoint-dependent world, I find this a tad naive.

This is just a form of “E-Scouting” (your words) no?

 

[MTHunter20]

Count me in on Team Randy. I think he’s one of the best advocates we have for public lands and public hunting opportunities. A lot of y’all are acting as if Randy is in favor of limiting opportunities for you and as if it’s personal somehow.

Instead of worrying about some guy “outing” your honey hole, you ought to be more worried about that honey hole being available at all and more honey holes being created through increased access to lands that are now private or have limited access.

I think a lot of guys that have always lived in the West don’t realize just how good they have it when it comes to how much land and opportunity is available compared to the East. Most places here in the East, you can’t get away from pressure unless you’re rich and have a ton of land. Even then you’re dealing with trespassers and poachers. Public lands are extremely pressured most places here. As with most things in life, if you want to be successful, you have to be willing to work harder than the next guy.

I truly believe Randy is one of the good guys and has probably done more for the preservation of Western hunting than most people ever will.

 

[3forks]

edit: double post

 

[3forks]

Maybe I a missing something since I haven't seen everyone of his shows and podcasts but when I have seen him mention anything even remotely specific to a spot it has been in areas that have very limited draw and you aren't going to be hunting it even every 5 years. If people are butt hurt about that then this is the most ridiculous bitch fest ever.

I have learned how to use ONX maps from his tutuorials and i can say first hand he has been very careful not to show the specific drainage or trailheads he would go in from based upon the topo maps.

My son and I hunted the opening week of Colorado archery elk. I worked my ass off reading everything on elk hunting and listening to podcasts specifically the ones by Randy Newberg, Cory Jacobson and the earlier Gritty Bowmen. As well as videos and picking up on what the terrain and tactics those who were successful did. ISpent well over 100 hours looking at google earth and based upon what I researched within 10 minutes of pulling into my campsite the Thursday before the archery opener I heard bugling elk on the next ridge. The next day my son and I scouted the area and had multiple elk respond to my calls before sunrise. We laid out a plan for the opener but altered where we were going to go because as we dropped into the drainage we had a bull bugle back farther down the drainage instead of up stream as we had heard the previous two days. Unfortunately following the sound we got cliffed out.

When we turned back we ran into a guy who was successful. It was funny because he got it exactly where I had the bulls respond the day before. As we talked he told me he had hunted this drainage for the last 10 opening weekends and had taken 3 bulls and two cows during that time. He told me that my son and I were the first people he had ever seen there even though we were less than 1/2 a mile from a major highway. It was a 900 foot drop in less than 1/3 of a mile with no trail and walking through a hillside of 4-6’ ferns. As we were talking I told him the 5 spots I had mapped out and planned on checking if this wasn’t good. He told me over the years he had killed elk in 4 of the five and if any out of towner deserved an elk it was us.

We had a cow come in to 80 yards on day three but the wind shifted as she was coming in to a water hole we were sitting at the time. Unfortunately my son woke up with altitude sickness the next morning and we had to cut our trip short by 5 days.

I am confident after this experience given enough time we could have been successful. I laugh at how you guys talk about pressure. Living in NJ you have no idea of pressure. I hunt almost exclusively public parks often with not more than 50 acres open to hunt . It’s not unusual to have 5-10 other guys within 1-200 yards of you. I have learned to use that pressure to have the deer come to me on escape routes and hunting the edges of the super thick bedding areas. I applied what I learned to our elk hunting and almost got it done on my first time in what turned out to be a long weekend.

I have only lived in Colorado and Montana. I know I would never want to live some place as crowded as NJ; but you do. You laugh at guys like me because we don’t know about pressure? I know enough about it not to want anything to do with what you’re describing. To me, your post comes across as condescending. You have to be aware that what makes the west unique is the space we have to recreate and live, right? Instead of trying to convince us that we have no idea about pressure and should just embrace it like you do, why don’t you consider that maybe you should appreciate the lack of crowds you experienced on your hunt and understand why some western hunters don’t want the same crowds you seem to like?

 

[Trevor73402]

I live in an area that is surrounded by hundreds, of not thousands of a acres of public land in all 4 directions from my home. As close as 15 min away to 2-3 hours away. Never in my life have I ever referred to any piece of that land as “My spot”. That reference, and how some who appear to be educated/intelligent use it, baffles me. I have no idea where any of you hunt, but if I show up to hunt at “your spot”, is it now also “my spot”? Or is it still “your spot” and I’m just a visitor? When does it become “my spot”, because I have no doubts that “your spot” was once “someone else’s spot” that you decided was then “your spot”. See how ridiculous that sounds? I love to eat at Chic-Fil-et. I guess that makes it my spot and it pisses me off that they have a sign up showing where they are and advertisements on TV. Sometimes I have to wait in line as much as 6-7 minutes before I get my food. I have no doubts that this is because other people found out about “my spot”.

 

[ewade07]

I met Randy in Bozeman one year at a Steve Rinella talk. Just walked up to him, introduced myself and started talking to him. Oddly enough, we hunt mule deer in the same spot in SE Montana. I've also met his friend, Bart, while out to lunch with my girlfriend in Billings. What he has done for hunting and conservation is truly remarkable. I can only hope and wish that I can make as big of an impact in the hunting world as he does. I love watching his YouTube videos. The whole group of people that he employs and brings along seem like great people, all of them. I'd be blessed to share time with them in the mountains.

As far as giving away spots and yada yada... Get real people. It's 2020. Everyone has their "spot", I get it. My brother and I have had multiple "spots" get found out over the years. Sure, it sucks, but we all know its going to happen sooner or later. And more likely than not, you yourself have been that guy. It's going to happen. Get over it. It's part of hunting and the lifestyle we live.

@Randy Newberg Thank you for all that you do for hunting and conservation, truly. And I am sorry that you have become a scapegoat for tag creep and spot stealing. I look forward to all your hunting shows as I think they are some of the best out there. Hope to run into you in the future!

 

[ChrisS]

Your naive to think it doesn't have an impact on point creep.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

This site has really taken a grumpy old man vibe the last couple of years. It's 75% complaining now. If it's not wolves, it's the internet (which is kind of ironic), or social media, or liberals, or new people, or who turned the damn thermostat up ...

Have fun with the latest outrage.

 

[ODB]

This site has really taken a grumpy old man vibe the last couple of years. It's 75% complaining now. If it's not wolves, it's the internet (which is kind of ironic), or social media, or liberals, or new people, or who turned the damn thermostat up ...

Have fun with the latest outrage.

...or complaining about how rokslide has “taken on a grumpy old man vibe.”

The nerve of people respectfully stating their thoughts... it’s a discussion board, people are discussing...it’s doing its job...

 

[4dcfries]

I won't even tell my wife where I hunt. So ya, I'm not keen on guys plastering things all over the internet or TV........even pictures. It's amazing how many times I see a hunting pic in a magazine and immediately know where the pic was taken.

dude....I don't even tell my wife where I hunt...I can not stop laughing..thanks.

 

[BuzzH]

I appreciate the mature and humble response by Randy. Class act.

So Randy thinks he doesn’t share unit information, which is interesting, and suggests the revelations are due to unintentional carelessness. I’ll say that in the background of that is a subconscious desire for more followers and/or people pleasing.

One example stands out showing this, on a podcast Randy was asked about antelope hunting in Wyoming. He volunteers after much internal humming and hawing that he’ll share with his listeners a big secret about antelope hunting in Wyoming and then shares the type of state owned property that he always hunts on. Add that to the references to the donut shops and where he stays at a hotel and you have things significantly narrowed. This was shocking to me because I thought Wyoming pronghorn would be sacred.

We know the unit where Randy hunted Wyoming elk two or three years ago because he shared the mountain range and then dates and shared he was right by the wilderness line. With about two seconds of research a guy could find the unit where he hunted deer because of all the specific identifiers regarding the unit and where he was that he shared. The deer hunt in Montana last year seemed to have a lot of identifiers based on the nearby city. In other cases, the exact unit has been mentioned like Henry’s or whatever Peaks in Arizona. There doesn’t seem to be any care taken with showing local places or videography showing prominent features. On a number of occasional he’s mentioned the unit in the Bighorns he’s hunted and how there’s just so many elk there.

The most common time for Randy to share units is on the q&a show. I’ve listened to more than half of the shows and would estimate he’s shared 5-10 units he’s hunted. Someone asks do you know anything about x unit in a certain state. Randy says yes, I hunted it and there’s a video in x season of my show or no I haven’t hunted it. With that information you can easily find out where Randy has hunted elk in New Mexico in a couple different units and where he hunted elk in Arizona, as well as a few other hunts.

It’s clever to put the onus on those frustrated to point out all the units referenced but I’m throwing it back to Randy’s court. I have picked up a bunch of references without listening for it or caring. In my lifetime I’ll probably hunt Idaho and two other western states and would avoid like the plague anywhere that Randy highlights (intentionally or not).

Randy did not directly respond to the other gripe—constant pushing for everyone who lives west of the Mississippi to apply for western elk states. That seemed like a good idea at first for hunter recruitment and the idea of helping people get started. But between Randy and other hunting celebs we now are past point creep and into point leap just in the last few years. The unfortunate result is many western guys like myself who’re younger and haven’t been applying in a number of states have severely diminished opportunities for controlled hunt tags in other states and for many states it’s basically pointless at this point—Nevada, Utah, Arizona except for archery and late seasons, etc. I can’t tell you how many guys have told me about how they have no clue what to do in Wyoming because odds are increasing by a point or two a year in many of the mid range units that they were contemplating. This was not all Randy but I think his role was significant and not cool. What could have been done was mentioning the option, describing the process, but not endlessly harping on it. But there’s the GoHunt sponsorship to push...

To push back on someone many here greatly respect, myself definitely included, is not easy. There are just some glaring mistakes Randy is making and I’ll buy that it’s unintentional. The voice of public lands doesn’t need to be so commercial (even if it’s not resulting in big bucks, Randy is a walking advertisement these days for GoHunt pushing draw applications) or so cavalier about sharing information about the location of various hunts, because the result is clear—honest western hunters deal with hordes more people in certain highlighted areas and hordes more applicants. Is that what was intended or is the result just ignored?

You haven't a clue and you've tipped your hand as well. You make it sound like you're some salty old veteran that's been there and done that, but then whine because you're young and want everything right now. Well, if you're just starting in the out of state applications, you're 20 years too late. Guys like Randy and I were applying for tags while your mom was changing your poopy diapers. Which, based on the amount of crap you're spewing, and the way you're crying like a baby, sounds like you could use a fresh diaper now.

Point systems drive point creep and the reasons you're seeing an increase in mid-tier units is because many have already drawn a tag or two and have burned their max points. Now they're looking for options with less than max and many are on their 3rd or even 4th tags. Party applications and point averaging in many states also drive point creep.

Another thing to note, if more people all of a sudden apply in unit X because they're crap hunters and cant do more research than watch a youtube video, that means less applicants in a host of other units. I also question the whole notion that a youtube video or an application service even has that much influence on draw odds. I've watched many, many places over the years and even when units are mentioned in the huntin' fool, epic, eastmans, I've seen no significant jump in applications, some years, even less people apply.

Further, if some d-bag's idea of "scouting" is filing FOIA requests, hacking draw results, following people to trailheads or internet sleuthing via youtube video's...well, fine with me. They must be pretty lousy hunters to not have the gumption to find their own spots and honestly, are no, and I mean, NO competition to me and how I hunt.

There are no short cuts, including just figuring out a unit another hunter draws, applies for, or hunts...and that's just a simple fact. I see the animals that other hunters take from the units I hunt, and a vast, vast, vast majority are animals I wouldn't even give a second glance to, let alone consider shooting.

Again...its the how, not the where...

 

[ewade07]

This site has really taken a grumpy old man vibe the last couple of years. It's 75% complaining now. If it's not wolves, it's the internet (which is kind of ironic), or social media, or liberals, or new people, or who turned the damn thermostat up ...

Have fun with the latest outrage.

Yup. Spot on. Everyone needs something to complain about.

 

[black_bear]

It's just like hiking, or anything else outdoors related. People find cool/good spots, post pics on the internet, and now it's blown up. It is what it is, have a secondary, and tertiary plan if it is crowded. My only "my spot" is on my farm/mountain ground I own. Everywhere else I hunt is simply just A spot, there are many more.

Lot of complaining going on...

 

[ewade07]

You haven't a clue and you've tipped your hand as well. You make it sound like you're some salty old veteran that's been there and done that, but then whine because you're young and want everything right now. Well, if you're just starting in the out of state applications, you're 20 years too late. Guys like Randy and I were applying for tags while your mom was changing your poopy diapers. Which, based on the amount of crap you're spewing, and the way you're crying like a baby, sounds like you could use a fresh diaper now.

Point systems drive point creep and the reasons you're seeing an increase in mid-tier units is because many have already drawn a tag or two and have burned their max points. Now they're looking for options with less than max and many are on their 3rd or even 4th tags. Party applications and point averaging in many states also drive point creep.

Another thing to note, if more people all of a sudden apply in unit X because they're crap hunters and cant do more research than watch a youtube video, that means less applicants in a host of other units. I also question the whole notion that a youtube video or an application service even has that much influence on draw odds. I've watched many, many places over the years and even when units are mentioned in the huntin' fool, epic, eastmans, I've seen no significant jump in applications, some years, even less people apply.

Further, if some d-bag's idea of "scouting" is filing FOIA requests, hacking draw results, following people to trailheads or internet sleuthing via youtube video's...well, fine with me. They must be pretty lousy hunters to not have the gumption to find their own spots and honestly, are no, and I mean, NO competition to me and how I hunt.

There are no short cuts, including just figuring out a unit another hunter draws, applies for, or hunts...and that's just a simple fact. I see the animals that other hunters take from the units I hunt, and a vast, vast, vast majority are animals I wouldn't even give a second glance to, let alone consider shooting.

Again...its the how, not the where...

I'm waiting for someone to chime in and start blaming the wolves

 

[5MilesBack]

I have no idea where any of you hunt, but if I show up to hunt at “your spot”, is it now also “my spot”? Or is it still “your spot” and I’m just a visitor? When does it become “my spot”, because I have no doubts that “your spot” was once “someone else’s spot” that you decided was then “your spot”.

When I show up to a "new" area or any spot for that matter and there is already someone else there.......that's THEIR spot, and I'm encroaching. That's the way I was raised and that offers the most respect to other hunters/fisherman, etc. That's why I have plans A, B, C, D, E....etc. If someone is in A, I go to B, etc. When I'm at a spot and someone encroaches on that spot still after seeing and knowing someone else is there, IMO that's disrespectful. Sure, it's their right to "choose" to be there. But while being a dick may be their right, it still makes them a dick.

 

[Gobbler36]

I appreciate the mature and humble response by Randy. Class act.

So Randy thinks he doesn’t share unit information, which is interesting, and suggests the revelations are due to unintentional carelessness. I’ll say that in the background of that is a subconscious desire for more followers and/or people pleasing.

One example stands out showing this, on a podcast Randy was asked about antelope hunting in Wyoming. He volunteers after much internal humming and hawing that he’ll share with his listeners a big secret about antelope hunting in Wyoming and then shares the type of state owned property that he always hunts on. Add that to the references to the donut shops and where he stays at a hotel and you have things significantly narrowed. This was shocking to me because I thought Wyoming pronghorn would be sacred.

We know the unit where Randy hunted Wyoming elk two or three years ago because he shared the mountain range and then dates and shared he was right by the wilderness line. With about two seconds of research a guy could find the unit where he hunted deer because of all the specific identifiers regarding the unit and where he was that he shared. The deer hunt in Montana last year seemed to have a lot of identifiers based on the nearby city. In other cases, the exact unit has been mentioned like Henry’s or whatever Peaks in Arizona. There doesn’t seem to be any care taken with showing local places or videography showing prominent features. On a number of occasional he’s mentioned the unit in the Bighorns he’s hunted and how there’s just so many elk there.

The most common time for Randy to share units is on the q&a show. I’ve listened to more than half of the shows and would estimate he’s shared 5-10 units he’s hunted. Someone asks do you know anything about x unit in a certain state. Randy says yes, I hunted it and there’s a video in x season of my show or no I haven’t hunted it. With that information you can easily find out where Randy has hunted elk in New Mexico in a couple different units and where he hunted elk in Arizona, as well as a few other hunts.

It’s clever to put the onus on those frustrated to point out all the units referenced but I’m throwing it back to Randy’s court. I have picked up a bunch of references without listening for it or caring. In my lifetime I’ll probably hunt Idaho and two other western states and would avoid like the plague anywhere that Randy highlights (intentionally or not).

Randy did not directly respond to the other gripe—constant pushing for everyone who lives west of the Mississippi to apply for western elk states. That seemed like a good idea at first for hunter recruitment and the idea of helping people get started. But between Randy and other hunting celebs we now are past point creep and into point leap just in the last few years. The unfortunate result is many western guys like myself who’re younger and haven’t been applying in a number of states have severely diminished opportunities for controlled hunt tags in other states and for many states it’s basically pointless at this point—Nevada, Utah, Arizona except for archery and late seasons, etc. I can’t tell you how many guys have told me about how they have no clue what to do in Wyoming because odds are increasing by a point or two a year in many of the mid range units that they were contemplating. This was not all Randy but I think his role was significant and not cool. What could have been done was mentioning the option, describing the process, but not endlessly harping on it. But there’s the GoHunt sponsorship to push...

To push back on someone many here greatly respect, myself definitely included, is not easy. There are just some glaring mistakes Randy is making and I’ll buy that it’s unintentional. The voice of public lands doesn’t need to be so commercial (even if it’s not resulting in big bucks, Randy is a walking advertisement these days for GoHunt pushing draw applications) or so cavalier about sharing information about the location of various hunts, because the result is clear—honest western hunters deal with hordes more people in certain highlighted areas and hordes more applicants. Is that what was intended or is the result just ignored?

I wanted to quote this so people can read it again. Thanks for the post, i would echo this is my main complaint

 

[idahohikker]

You haven't a clue and you've tipped your hand as well. You make it sound like you're some salty old veteran that's been there and done that, but then whine because you're young and want everything right now. Well, if you're just starting in the out of state applications, you're 20 years too late. Guys like Randy and I were applying for tags while your mom was changing your poopy diapers. Which, based on the amount of crap you're spewing, and the way you're crying like a baby, sounds like you could use a fresh diaper now.

Point systems drive point creep and the reasons you're seeing an increase in mid-tier units is because many have already drawn a tag or two and have burned their max points. Now they're looking for options with less than max and many are on their 3rd or even 4th tags. Party applications and point averaging in many states also drive point creep.

Another thing to note, if more people all of a sudden apply in unit X because they're crap hunters and cant do more research than watch a youtube video, that means less applicants in a host of other units. I also question the whole notion that a youtube video or an application service even has that much influence on draw odds. I've watched many, many places over the years and even when units are mentioned in the huntin' fool, epic, eastmans, I've seen no significant jump in applications, some years, even less people apply.

Further, if some d-bag's idea of "scouting" is filing FOIA requests, hacking draw results, following people to trailheads or internet sleuthing via youtube video's...well, fine with me. They must be pretty lousy hunters to not have the gumption to find their own spots and honestly, are no, and I mean, NO competition to me and how I hunt.

There are no short cuts, including just figuring out a unit another hunter draws, applies for, or hunts...and that's just a simple fact. I see the animals that other hunters take from the units I hunt, and a vast, vast, vast majority are animals I wouldn't even give a second glance to, let alone consider shooting.

Again...its the how, not the where...

Randy does not reflect well on you to be tied to Buzz. I share what I feel is a thoughtful response and certainly Randy is always measured and thoughtful. Buzz is anger and boasting and lines like this:

Guys like Randy and I were applying for tags while your mom was changing your poopy diapers. Which, based on the amount of crap you're spewing, and the way you're crying like a baby, sounds like you could use a fresh diaper now.

Buzz, again, since you have no problem with broadcasting specific areas, we’re all waiting for yours. You’ve already said it won’t hurt you at all since it’s about the hunter not the area.

 

[NDGuy]

Or who turned the damn thermostat up ..

Okay but seriously that really should be considered a criminal felony..