Ole Ryan Callaghan got robbed.

[IdahoElk]

In a Posh central Id. neighborhood?

Does he live in Ketchum? I didn't hear about it,when did it happen?

 

[Fatcamp]

So if a guy was no long entering your house, retreating down the driveway in your truck, would you start shooting?

Absolutely not. That is not past the threshold of my home and presents no risk to me or mine.

Some states allow for lethal force when stopping those who have committed felonies. Wouldn't matter to me.

 

[rustneversleeps]

Tough situation to armchair quarterback, but shooting someone aside, I am not going to sit there and get robbed without doing something about it if thats an option.

 

[jmcd22]

Does ID not have castle doctrine?

We do but I don't think he lives here anymore.

 

[Desk Jockey]

He lives in Bozeman. Some sort of live / work neighborhood. Apartment over a large garage. Crooks broke into his truck and raised his garrage door. They were downstairs looting at 2:00AM when cal woke up and called PD. PD response time was quick. Crooks made off in his truck but left it a short distance away.

Cal had some access to guns but opted not to confront crooks. He waited for PD to arrive and let them handle it. Seems like they took a random mix of guns and gear along with some tools and maybe some personal files.

They recount the experience in the beginning of this weeks podcast.

 

[OXN939]

So if a guy was no long entering your house, retreating down the driveway in your truck, would you start shooting?

For posterity, if you shoot someone and they:

1. Are facing away from you,

2. Are more than 20 feet away from you (without a gun),

there is a very good chance that you will go to jail or at least face a protracted legal process, no matter what other details exist. Massad Ayoob's books are the read for anyone interested in the intricacies of self defense limitations.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Gotta love arm chair quarterbacks. The national standard for using deadly force is if your life is in danger. There may be some state laws that allow taking a life for lesser reasons, but I wouldn't risk my freedom on them holding up in court. If you live in one of those states and would risk your freedom, good luck and hopefully it works out in your favor.

Lot of states have adopted castle doctrine.

It’s not criminal prosecution unless you live in a majority liberal state, it’s the civil suits that can bleed you dry.

 

[cuerro viejo]

So if a guy was no long entering your house, retreating down the driveway in your truck, would you start shooting?

Depends on where you live. A Truck could be considered extension of your home.

Personally most likely because it means he has already killed my chessie’s,

 

[Wyatt.Carter]

These comments are great.

 

[Mike Islander]

Yep, there are literally laws in place that specifically have wording to the effect of "Shall not be prosecuted...". You have to meet the criteria, but as long as you do, you are protected by the law. It depends on the state. It's amazing how good our laws are in SC and how absolutely bat shit, convoluted, and idiotic the gun laws are in our neighbor to the north.

I disagree with anyone who says it's a bad decision to use a firearm under all circumstances, even those that are justified. It's a GREAT decision if it prevents injury or death of a family member or an innocent person who is actually being threatened by a bad guy. There will be due diligence required if this happens, but not enough to make a good decision be a bad decision.

I've had to rely on my firearm one time when I found a man chasing a woman in the woods (after first chasing her in his car as she ran down the road) when I was riding my dirt bike. I didn't have to shoot, but I would have if things went slightly different. I went through what it took to back up my decision to use the threat of death to solve this problem. Thankfully I was on the phone with 911 the entire time and they could hear everything that was happening.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I could be wrong, but someone who killed dogs and is fleeing would still be a very hard case to prove. And expensive. I don’t know of very many circumstances a fleeing person can be shot, there are some but it’s rare, even murders.

TTexas

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

 

[TREE ‘EM]

All of this makes a strong case for owning a dog.

Virtually anything that barks is a deterrent.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Texas is a bit different than most states. I think they still have duels, and I’m ok with that. But in most states, you will be in a world of hurt should you shoot a fleeing thief.

But after Austin and the other cities get overrun from the west coast, you may want to reread this law, they are coming for the seats.

Austin has limited influence on Texas legislation, but Beto is a good example of outside influences since he was funded 99% from out of state resources.

There are more then a handful of states that have similar legislation, I’d just have to dig

 

[*zap*]

Best to shoot thieves before they start to flee....

 

[87TT]

Sgt Joe B Frick's rules for a gunfight, rule number 28.

28. The only thing you EVER say afterwards is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now.
I can't say anything more. Please speak with my attorney."

 

[rob86jeep]

It concerns me when people are interested in the "reasons" why/when they're legally allowed to kill a person. If you're life is truly in danger, it doesn't matter on the law (but I guarantee you'll be justified in your actions). Focus on protecting yourself, not trying to figure out in which state you can kill a person for stealing something...

 

[Fatcamp]

Now we know why we ended up needing concealed carry permits and classes.

And to the opposite point why we ended up needing Castle Doctrine laws.

 

[Fatcamp]

It concerns me when people are interested in the "reasons" why/when they're legally allowed to kill a person. If you're life is truly in danger, it doesn't matter on the law (but I guarantee you'll be justified in your actions). Focus on protecting yourself, not trying to figure out in which state you can kill a person for stealing something...

So understanding the laws of the state where you live and raise your family is a bad thing? I don't understand that at all. If someone enters my home through force I should have the right to stop that threat. Unfortunately in many places certain types of people have made that illegal. I don't live there.

 

[Milestone522]

Sgt Joe B Frick's rules for a gunfight, rule number 28.

28. The only thing you EVER say afterwards is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now.
I can't say anything more. Please speak with my attorney."

That is actually good advice, but I would add " I am cooperative and will give a statement with my attorney".

As someone who has investigated dozens of both citizen and officer involved shootings, as well as been involved in the investigation of over 80 homicides, the advice from 87TT is absolutely correct. I have never seen a law abiding citizen prosecuted for a homicide, and a lot has to do with 3 things: your statement to Police, the DA desire to make a conviction stat off your actions, and your standing in the community.

It seems to me with the limited information provided that Ryan C used good judgement in not shooting at a vehicle leaving the scene of a hot prowl burglary (not a robbery).

The last question I always asked in an shooting interview was "what did you think would happen if you did not fire?" The entire case is in your response.( I used that question myself as it was used on me in a fatal officer involved gunfight interview 11 years ago).

Remember, every murder is a homicide, but not every homicide is a murder.

But, there is a lawyer on the tip of every bullet you fire. ( you may be cleared criminally but not from civil litigation).

 

[rob86jeep]

So understanding the laws of the state where you live and raise your family is a bad thing? I don't understand that at all. If someone enters my home through force I should have the right to stop that threat. Unfortunately in many places certain types of people have made that illegal. I don't live there.

It's a great thing to know the laws and you shouldn't have/carry weapons without knowing them. However, that doesn't mean you should use deadly force just because the law allows it.

To respond to your comment though, you can also "stop that threat" by using verbal commands. If that doesn't work and they threaten your life, then by all means do what you need to do to survive.

Also, there is no place in America where it's illegal to defend yourself.