Ole Ryan Callaghan got robbed.

[Rs3003]

Either way I’m sure it’s very expensive to shot a person, even in your own house. No one knows the exact situation. Until it happens to you it’s all make believe. I hope it never happens to me. I’m good with make believe.

 

[Mt Al]

That sucks, almost as much as some of the tough guy comments in here.

Unless someone's been in the exact same situation (knows layout of house, stairs/approach, your life history, impact on celeb status, armed or not, etc.).......it's still a free country to show your true nature by telling people what you'd do if'n it were you, even though you have zero clue about it.

Continue! I do love castle doctrine/protect your domain, just hope I'm never in that situation.

 

[OldGrayJB]

On a more serious note...Did they steal his gps. If so, I'm looking to hire a bounty hunter to track that thing down. I'd pay good money for those waypoints.

I'm just glad Cal is OK

 

[Fatcamp]

That sucks, almost as much as some of the tough guy comments in here.

Unless someone's been in the exact same situation (knows layout of house, stairs/approach, your life history, impact on celeb status, armed or not, etc.).......it's still a free country to show your true nature by telling people what you'd do if'n it were you, even though you have zero clue about it.

Continue! I do love castle doctrine/protect your domain, just hope I'm never in that situation.

Ya, in hindsight I feel a little bashful about having judged a guy with this kind of nerve.

 

[rob86jeep]

Ya, in hindsight I feel a little bashful about having judged a guy with this kind of nerve.

There's definitely no way in hell I'd be that calm after a bluff charge from a grizzly...

 

[tackdriver]

He probably didn't shoot because he didn't want to hit all the neighbors! If anybody saw Cal in the Field Ep. 3: Mule Deer by Canoe…. you would know what I mean! Sight your guns in better Cal. You might have a cool mustache, but you cant shoot.

 

[AK_Skeeter]

I don’t know about Idaho, but approaching a fleeing thief in most places is not a shootable situation. Now if you are standing in the middle of the driveway and he’s driving at you, that would be ok. Shooting down onto them from a set of stairs, most likely not.

Another thing, approaching a garage with a handgun when you don’t know the number of people, and also know for a fact that there are 2 shotguns. 2 shotguns > 1 handgun. Seems like a decent decision to me.

Except in Palmer Alaska...remember the priest who shot the thief in the back as he was running down the stairs?
I think that was back in the mid 90s....

 

[Riplip]

One of the fastest derailments of a thread I have seen a while......guys I know we are a little stressed but come on, take a deep breath.

 

[Bobbyboe]

Well I listened to it today, I can say I have been in that situation before, and chose to not risk shooting, expensive litigation as well, and I’m not a public figure.

I was riding an ATV down a dirt road to an old river bridge. I was wearing gym shorts, so I just tucked my new 44 six shooter under my leg.

As I pull up on the bridge I see a guy and gal looking at the river on their ATV as well. As I go by and wave, he holds a hand up to stop, with a 40oz in the other hand. He then yells and cusses me up one side and down the other for banging his wife, what a dirt bag I was, he was gonna bang me in the head with his bottle and throw me and my wheeler in the river. As I sat there, right hand in the pistol, I slowly pulled the hammer back. He was so wasted he wasn’t watching my right hand.

At this point I had a decision to make, pull it and shoot, or play it out awhile. I decided I didn’t want to try and prove my life was in danger over a yelling drunk. At this point I was wishing I didn’t have a pistol because the things he was saying, I would’ve thumped him and sent him on his way with a few dots over his eyes, me wearing one of his teeth on my necklace.

Long story short, I’d never met his wife, met him later sober. Explained to him 1-why he was still alive, 2-why I didn’t do dental work on site. We came to an understanding, problem solved.

Sometimes defending yourself is very expensive even if innocent. A drunk on an ATV t-boned a buddy, I think he spent thousands on a lawyer, and charges were never brought.

Smart decision on his part, a few belongings aren’t worth the hassle, especially for a public figure.

That my friend would be considered homicide. Glad you made the decision you did, or you’d be in prison.

 

[Bobbyboe]

To be fair if my friends got robbed I would joke about it to their faces.

sounds like a crappy friend.

 

[Bobbyboe]

If a guy hits me in the head with a bottle and attempt to toss me off an 50ft bridge? Uh ok

Your’re correct, IF he HIT you in the HEAD with a BOTTLE that would be considered deadly force. But guess what, he didn’t, therefore it’s not deadly force.

You made the right decision, just saying you’d be in prison if you pulled the trigger.

 

[pk_]

Just saw it on CNN Covid19 looting.

 

[Milestone522]

Your’re correct, IF he HIT you in the HEAD with a BOTTLE that would be considered deadly force. But guess what, he didn’t, therefore it’s not deadly force.

You made the right decision, just saying you’d be in prison if you pulled the trigger.

You do not need to be struck to have the crime of ADW (Assault w/ Deadly Weapon) occurr. Once the weapon is brandished the crime has occurred. Just as you do not need to be shot at first to use a firearm in self defense. You don't need to be stabbed to use force against a knife, etc...or struck with a bottle.

Like I said before, every murder is a homicide, but not every homicide is a murder.

 

[rob86jeep]

One of the fastest derailments of a thread I have seen a while......guys I know we are a little stressed but come on, take a deep breath.

I know my antagonistic social media postings have gone up dramatically with all this forced home time with crazy, bored kids!

 

[Bobbyboe]

You do not need to be struck to have the crime of ADW (Assault w/ Deadly Weapon) occurr. Once the weapon is brandished the crime has occurred. Just as you do not need to be shot at first to use a firearm in self defense. You don't need to be stabbed to use force against a knife, etc...or struck with a bottle.

Like I said before, every murder is a homicide, but not every homicide is a murder.

Your preaching the the choir, I have a very strong understanding of law, specifically deadly force issues. I’m not looking for an argument, fwiw.

You’re correct with a traditional weapon, self defense is typically easy to prove when the weapon is displayed. But, in the case of the situation described, a bottle by itself is not a deadly weapon. It’s the method of use that makes it deadly. So yes, if it was used to strike a person deadly force would be justifiable. In this case it wasn’t. In addition, the atv could be used to simply drive away. Good luck coming up with a defense if you weren’t at the very least hit with a bottle. You’d have to show a significant struggle occurred. In addition, as the story went, the operator of the atv pulled and readied the pistol while driving up to the people on the bridge. Shows decisions were made in his head before the confrontation occurred in the first place. That would be like with the castle law, shoot the dude in your house fine, walk outside and shoot him on the driveway, not fine. You can’t put yourself into a situation and claim selfdefense. If you think a deadly force situation may occur, why would you willingly dive up to it on an atv? Doesn’t make sense.

Bottles, sticks, pens, baseballs, and fists can all be deadly. If a dude punches you in the face you can’t just shoot him. Well, you can, but you’d be in prison. You need to justify your use of force, period. Some people like to talk big I guess.

I guess this is where we agree to disagree.

 

[Bobbyboe]

Read it again, it’s in English. He said I’m going to hit you in the head and throw you off the bridge. At that point do you not prepare for the worst? Just turn your head and hope for the best? I was prepared to react. Nowhere did I say I drew a sight on him for cussing. Cuss all you want, threaten me and I’m going to be prepared just in case you aren’t a blow hard drunk. Domestic love situations are not rational, so you don’t know what people are going to do.

Read it fine the first time. It said the pistol was placed under the leg while driving up. Unless you have an injury good luck defending yourself in the homicide trial.

Look, I’m not looking for an internet fight. I’m going by the facts as written, and what’s written would not justify deadly force. If you were hit AND feared for your life, Maybe justifiable. It doesn’t matter what you I think, it’s the judge and jury, Period.

 

[rob86jeep]

Discussions like these are great if they have an positive impact. However, it sounds like some people have their minds made up on what is legal. Good thing we have courts/judges/jury's to decide for us and help keep us from killing each other just because of a vague threat/theft.

 

[Milestone522]

Your preaching the the choir, I have a very strong understanding of law, specifically deadly force issues. I’m not looking for an argument, fwiw.

You’re correct with a traditional weapon, self defense is typically easy to prove when the weapon is displayed. But, in the case of the situation described, a bottle by itself is not a deadly weapon. It’s the method of use that makes it deadly. So yes, if it was used to strike a person deadly force would be justifiable. In this case it wasn’t. In addition, the atv could be used to simply drive away. Good luck coming up with a defense if you weren’t at the very least hit with a bottle. You’d have to show a significant struggle occurred. In addition, as the story went, the operator of the atv pulled and readied the pistol while driving up to the people on the bridge. Shows decisions were made in his head before the confrontation occurred in the first place. That would be like with the castle law, shoot the dude in your house fine, walk outside and shoot him on the driveway, not fine. You can’t put yourself into a situation and claim selfdefense. If you think a deadly force situation may occur, why would you willingly dive up to it on an atv? Doesn’t make sense.

Bottles, sticks, pens, baseballs, and fists can all be deadly. If a dude punches you in the face you can’t just shoot him. Well, you can, but you’d be in prison. You need to justify your use of force, period. Some people like to talk big I guess.

I guess this is where we agree to disagree.

I think you might be reading into his story a bit, and I might not be reading into it enough. He only stated where his firearm was on his person, and he was stopped by some drunk who threatened him with a bottle. Standing with a bottle and yelling is not the threat, once he starts to swing or posture like he is, it goes to deadly force. He waited to see an act, it never happened, and away he went.

And in the end it comes down to the Police interview, what the evidence shows, and the District Attorney, which keeps a lot from ever reaching Judges and juries...except in civil trials.

We probably both agree on the elements of the crime in this issue but with these messages a lot never gets across exactly as planned.

 

[Bobbyboe]

Oh now it’s how the gun was transported that’s illegal. Well that’s wrong as well. What transpired didn’t not justify force in my opinion, but I was prepared for it to escalate and only a damn fool wouldn’t have been. When a deadly weapon is waved around and the use is threatened, don’t prepare if you like, your call.

Look, I’m not attacking you, just stating my opinion. I’m glad the situation turned out the way it did. In critical incidents the feelings of and emotions people experience can not be replicated after the fact. I’m not downplaying the incident, just simply saying the incident as described would not justify deadly force.

It’s over and done with. Glad it turned out well. I don’t want people to think brandishing a bottle is justification to shoot someone, it’s not.

 

[Mosby]

Not that it applies to Cal's case but there are some really interesting interviews of serial killers on YT. A number of serial killers would break into homes, lie in wait and surprise the home owner. BTK in Wichita for example. He would tell the home owner that if they did what they told them, no one would get hurt. He would then of course get them physically under control...torture, rape and then kill them, hence the nickname. Another sk said it really surprised him how many women never fought back when he first attacked them. He was a small guy. He said his victims believed him when he said he wouldn't hurt them if they did what he wanted.

What I learned watching those videos is that smart killers won't threaten your life until they have an advantage or control. They are going to tell you the complete opposite to gain it.

They may not be physically imposing at all. It will be difficult to determine intent and you may have seconds to realize that you and yours are in real trouble. Its probably not the drunk we need to really worry about or the guy that says he's going to beat your azz. It's the guy that looks and talks normal. BTK was a deacon in his church. People don't want to believe that other people want to hurt them. They try to rationalize what a normal person would or should do and assume everybody follows the same rules. It is that process that killers rely on.

If someone enters my home, I am going to assume the worst and act accordingly. I am not going to waste a lot of time trying to determine intent.

IMO what Cal did was smart though. Arm yourself, take a defensive position and call the PD if you can. Experts don't recommend going looking for them. You don't know what you're walking into. If they find you....read above.