No wonder we lose our rights

[Eastonsgrandpa]

A recently locked thread showed the exact reason we can't seem to get ahead. We are supposed to be a united front but instead we cannibalize our own. We trash each other for the choice of camo. If someone drives a mountain road or hikes fifty miles. We hammer guys showing their forky, or worry about using mechanical vs. fixed heads. The guy with the 6.5cm just has to be a man bun wearing beta, right? The guy that hunts private as opposed to public. It's all just food for those who hate what we do.

All I see in all of these things is the furthering of division between sportsmen. Tribalism is rampant. If we were to get every single hunter/fisherman, etc. together and on the same page, we would still be a minority in this country and financially short to the corporations that donate to our opponents.

I don't pretend to know what the answer is, but we have got to start seeing everyone else on the mountain as a brother/sister and not look down on their weapon of choice or how they find their joy there.

I can only do that for me. I personally don't care what you carry, wear, or where you go and how you get there. Compound, flintlock, 400 grain bullets, .223, recurve, spear, or even the dreaded X-bow. May not be for me, but you are welcome at my fire and hopefully next to me at the voting booth to protect each others rights.

 

[CorbLand]

Eh, guess I dont really see us as that divided. Simply because some dont agree with crossbows in archery season, scopes on muzzleloaders, trail cameras, etc. doesnt mean they are antihunting or that we are divided. Hunters have shown that when we need to stand against out right attacks on hunting, we can do it.

One thing to remember, the only reason we have hunting to this day is because people stood for change and self regulation. I dont think they were very popular at that time and I wonder how many people said the same things that are being said today.

 

[Eastonsgrandpa]

Eh, guess I dont really see us as that divided. Simply because some dont agree with crossbows in archery season, scopes on muzzleloaders, trail cameras, etc. doesnt mean they antihunting or that we are divided. Hunters have shown that when we need to stand for out right attacks on hunting, we can do it.

One thing to remember, the only reason we have hunting to this day is because people stood for change and self regulation. I dont think they were very popular at that time and I wonder how many people said the same things that are being said today.

I hope you are right, but the things I see being said to and about others who do it differently tells me a different story. That thread was only one example. I've seen some of the nastiest comments posted by hunters to other hunters about everything from clothing choice to weapons. Or the occasional attack on parenting because of the way they had their child enter into the field and take their first animal. The lion thing gave me hope, but we will see because they are certainly not done coming after us.

Maybe it's just a few vocal minorities and I hope that's the case. But if someone attacks me, my interest in helping that person retain their rights might just be tainted.

 

[Scoot]

I totally agree with Corb. As I mentioned in the other thread, I don't believe xbows belong in archery season. That doesn't mean I have a problem with xbows or with the people who shoot them.

 

[Marble]

I think a lot of the problems here are not unique to us. It is difficult to really understand everyone's point of view and tone when communicating only through written words. That's not all of it. But I think a big influence.

Having a less intimate interaction also pushes people to be a little more brazen in their response.

Sometimes people are just flat rude because someone disagrees with them. I've made comments here before about this, but what can you do?

I like seeing and taking part in some of the debates, but often times I stay out of it because I can see people getting fired up and I've dealt with enough of that in my life.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[Eastonsgrandpa]

I totally agree with Corb. As I mentioned in the other thread, I don't believe xbows belong in archery season. That doesn't mean I have a problem with xbows or with the people who shoot them.

My post is not toward any specific individual or situation. The thread was just the catalyst to putting my thoughts down in writing.


And it's definitely not just hunting. If you want to see people eat each other, check out fly fishing forums. I pretty much fly fish exclusively and have for a couple decades. I just don't enjoy spin, bait, etc. unless I'm taking the kids. But man, the infighting in fishing is insane. And if someone dares to keep a trout? Ukraine and Russia would cower at those fights.

 

[Eastonsgrandpa]

I think a lot of the problems here are not unique to us. It is difficult to really understand everyone's point of view and tone when communicating only through written words. That's not all of it. But I think a big influence.

Having a less intimate interaction also pushes people to be a little more brazen in their response.

Sometimes people are just flat rude because someone disagrees with them. I've made comments here before about this, but what can you do?

I like seeing and taking part in some of the debates, but often times I stay out of it because I can see people getting fired up and I've dealt with enough of that in my life.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

Absolutely. Debate is healthy and necessary, when done with respect. But you are right in that the anonymity of the internet has created a lot of very brazen people who would never say those things in person. Now if we could get D.C. to have honorable debate with the idea of finding a solution, we would all benefit.

 

[Wrench]

I shoot longbows to 2 mile rigs. I really don't care how you do it. If I want to be effective I will. If I want to be challenged....I will.

What REALLY hurts us is social. People used to have their ideas on how our game is played.....now everyone shows the world.....and 4 digit kill shots that show the final moments of life sure dont help.

 

[Marble]

Absolutely. Debate is healthy and necessary, when done with respect. But you are right in that the anonymity of the internet has created a lot of very brazen people who would never say those things in person. Now if we could get D.C. to have honorable debate with the idea of finding a solution, we would all benefit.

Man, wouldn't that be nice!!

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[robby denning]

A recently locked thread showed the exact reason we can't seem to get ahead. We are supposed to be a united front but instead we cannibalize our own. We trash each other for the choice of camo. If someone drives a mountain road or hikes fifty miles. We hammer guys showing their forky, or worry about using mechanical vs. fixed heads. The guy with the 6.5cm just has to be a man bun wearing beta, right? The guy that hunts private as opposed to public. It's all just food for those who hate what we do.

All I see in all of these things is the furthering of division between sportsmen. Tribalism is rampant. If we were to get every single hunter/fisherman, etc. together and on the same page, we would still be a minority in this country and financially short to the corporations that donate to our opponents.

I don't pretend to know what the answer is, but we have got to start seeing everyone else on the mountain as a brother/sister and not look down on their weapon of choice or how they find their joy there.

I can only do that for me. I personally don't care what you carry, wear, or where you go and how you get there. Compound, flintlock, 400 grain bullets, .223, recurve, spear, or even the dreaded X-bow. May not be for me, but you are welcome at my fire and hopefully next to me at the voting booth to protect each others rights.

I only know the thread got locked because of name calling, not necessarily the subject covered.

 

[COelk89]

Hunters in general are our own worst enemy but that is driven more by external optics and social media, not internal infighting IMO. Things on the edge ethically may have happened decades ago, but they were rarely if ever filmed and did not go "viral."

We are a small, passionate, minority constituency of the total population that spans the political spectrum. Overall I think there is far more that we agree on that is just taken for granted. One example is the North American Model of funding and managing conservation of wildlife. The only time that comes up for discussion is really when it is under attack from some ballot initiative or another. Other than that we don't really discuss it, because it is already common ground. Arguing about calibers or shot placement or equipment etc. is just semantics and in general, unless truly trying to learn, is probably a waste of time!

 

[signing off]

As if we are herd animals ourselves, the antis find a way to pick at us one by one. We have not developed the techniques to protect all angles.
State local and federal levels, courtroom issues and even HOA level we are being attacked.
Adding 10-20 minutes a month to being involved would be the concrete, tangible way to show solidarity. Sure sounds miserable compared to a few extra minutes in wild area enjoying nature but would pay dividends.

 

[Beendare]

Good thread.

Hunters are individualistic. They just want to hunt....and many prefer to ignore politics and issues that are not right in their own backyard.

We need those^ guys to understand precedents that are being set in other states WILL eventually affect them. The silliness in CA and OR have crept into Montana- who would have thought that would ever happen?

It's easy to get involved with minimal effort and $$. Toss some $$ to SCI, or other sportsman's organizations that are using the lobby and legal system to stop these hunting restrictions.

BCA Pint nights are fun...but it's legal action that actually DOES SOMETHING....my money goes to the outfits with a legal team.

 

[TSAMP]

I think a lot of the problems here are not unique to us. It is difficult to really understand everyone's point of view and tone when communicating only through written words. That's not all of it. But I think a big influence.

Having a less intimate interaction also pushes people to be a little more brazen in their response.

Sometimes people are just flat rude because someone disagrees with them. I've made comments here before about this, but what can you do?

I like seeing and taking part in some of the debates, but often times I stay out of it because I can see people getting fired up and I've dealt with enough of that in my life.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

This right here. A forum isn't the barometer that some might think it is. While I learn much here, I don't let individuals behaviors or observations carry much weight.

 

[roosiebull]

I can only do that for me. I personally don't care what you carry, wear, or where you go and how you get there. Compound, flintlock, 400 grain bullets, .223, recurve, spear, or even the dreaded X-bow. May not be for me, but you are welcome at my fire

Good idea, burn em all! I want to invite everyone who hunts the same areas as me to a real big campfire, it’s getting too crowded out there

 

[roosiebull]

In all seriousness, there is a fine line between uniting and policing ourselves, we aren’t all going to agree all of the time

People hunt for their own individual reasons, some love the process, some want something to post on social media, and everything else in between

There are all walks of life that hunt, from young guys wanting recognition to old stuck in their way fudds, and every other type of person, we aren’t always going to see eye to eye

Combine that with politically managed wildlife, monetized hunting, and loss of access, there is a lot to argue about… that leads to people having no courtesy or respect for others, and social media hunters pimping public lands, it’s going to cause division among hunters.

Once in awhile i run into other hunters, occasionally I leave the interaction thinking that person was very pleasant, way more often I think I can’t believe how much of a tool that guy was. It would be a lot easier to rally behind my fellow hunter if the ratios were reversed, but they are going the wrong direction. The golden rule is pretty much lost in the hunting community where I hunt

 

[roadrunner]

Which is the better response:

"Not sure I'm following you, what do you mean by_________."

OR

""

The choice of response in this example will give you everything you need to know as a litmus of whether we're divided or not.

Miscommunication is the root of ALL misunderstanding...

 

[displacedtexan]

If the nastiest things you've heard people called are because of their weapon/camp/tactics... Boy have you led a shelterd life.

Just because a hunter has a negative opinion of crossbows, or scopes on muzzleloaders, or camo, or baiting, or whatever, doesn't mean they're supporting a ban.

I think shooting belted magnums at whitetails 100 yards away while wearing head to toe camo in a box blind is dumb. But people are free to do things I think are dumb.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I only know the thread got locked because of name calling, not necessarily the subject covered.

Which thread was this? The Arizona cross bow thread?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

This right here. A forum isn't the barometer that some might think it is. While I learn much here, I don't let individuals behaviors or observations carry much weight.

I think the main thing on lots of threads is that folks seem to think that disagreements immediately mean guys and gals don't like each other. Debating is good for the site, especially when it's shown with real world data to back it up; and just because someone doesn't agree with what you type, doesn't mean they dislike you as a person; or are in some way "challenging your experience" or whatever folks think.