NM landowner tags under fire

[Ten Bears]

For a thread about NM's EPLUS, the thing to care about is the system itself...

EPLUS opens up public that is privately land-locked. Pretty relevant really.

Corner crossing - not an issue about NM'S EPLUS program.

NM screwed the pooch on real predator management with the "ban" of trapping on public lands.

Good luck putting hunting and fishing rights into NM's state constitution. The state legislature is more worried about gender dysphoria.

The game commission needs to be addressed. The outfitter rule needs to be abolished with prejudice.

I think you missed the tone of the post.

Another thread complaining about eplus is redundant and the low on the totem pole of stuff we need to be focused on..

 

[WV Mountaineer]

What if you substituted elk with water in this discussion. Would you still feel the same?

Absolutely.

If it wasn’t elk hunting, would you?

 

[roadrunner]

I think you missed the tone of the post.

Another thread complaining about eplus is redundant and the low on the totem pole of stuff we need to be focused on..

No, I didn't miss the tone. Caring about other things common to other areas is irrelevant to the EPLUS program, the very topic of this thread...

 

[tpicou]

My degree was in Economics. For one of my upper level classes, I wrote a paper on the implications of privatizing deer herds in VA.

I get the sentiment, but allowing private profiting of the resource helps ensure better quality game.

if it pays, it stays

 

[Ten Bears]

No, I didn't miss the tone. Caring about other things common to other areas is irrelevant to the EPLUS program, the very topic of this thread...

The very topic of eplus being an issue is what is irrelevant…that’s the tone. you did miss it

we have way more important shit to worry about than a landowner making a few grand off a tag while in enrolled in a program that has actual benefits…

the eplus thing pops up every year when folks realize they didn’t draw…

 

[wapitibob]

Same song and dance from 10 years ago. LO vouchers aren't going anywhere, especially when NMWF and their twin, NM BHA are leading the charge.

 

[KHNC]

They absolutely do not, which was exactly the point of my post. Having a ranch-only tag doesn’t allow for hunting out of season or after legal shooting light.

It forces the landowners to actually HAVE hunting on their ranches. So yes, it solves that problem. Hunting at night and out of season is illegal, and they will go to HELL For it.

 

[KHNC]

They don't, actually. At least not with mule deer (and antelope), and especially not with smaller holdings of less than 1500 acres. Those deer can and do travel 5 miles or more every night to get down into someone's fields.

They bed down during the day in surrounding public lands, especially up in the agriculturally worthless hills above the fertile flats the ranches and farms were founded on.

Limiting those hunts to the ranches themselves definitely does limit the financial value of the tags, but it genuinely does not address the public land herds visiting those fields at night. Not unless you want to treat those herds and tags like vermin, predators, and varmints, and allow night hunting.

That's the reality of the Great Basin/Intermountain West, from Utah to Eastern California, southern Idaho down to the Mexican border.

LO's are mostly just selling these tags for profit. I am addressing putting that shit to a stop. Force LO's to use their tags on the land they own. Put the UW tags in the draw where stupidly outrageous profits dont exist for them. That takes care of the public land killing opportunities and opens up more hunting for people that arent rich as hell.

 

[Fredcohunter]

LO's are mostly just selling these tags for profit. I am addressing putting that shit to a stop. Force LO's to use their tags on the land they own. Put the UW tags in the draw where stupidly outrageous profits dont exist for them. That takes care of the public land killing opportunities and opens up more hunting for people that arent rich as hell.

My Colorado OTC tag is over $800 this year to the government. How much does it have to cost before its too much and has to be stopped? Is it only because its landowners profiting? How you measure profit is also a complicated matter as the landowners have costs associated with the land and the program.

 

[KHNC]

My Colorado OTC tag is over $800 this year to the government. How much does it have to cost before its too much and has to be stopped? Is it only because its landowners profiting? How you measure profit is also a complicated matter as the landowners have costs associated with the land and the program.

How much is a LO tag in the 16's ? Ill tell you, its 20-25k now. Then 850.00 to the state for the tag. Then 15-17k to an outfitter (if you are using one). That is the generally outrageous shit im referring to. Someone paying 2500 for a LO tag to hunt DIY isnt really a big deal in a crap unit. However, even those dont really exist any more. Landowners are only using these for profit. They arent depending on that to run the ranch. If they are, they should probably sell out or get someone to manage it that can do a better job of making money on it.

 

[cuerro viejo]

LO's are mostly just selling these tags for profit. I am addressing putting that shit to a stop. Force LO's to use their tags on the land they own. Put the UW tags in the draw where stupidly outrageous profits dont exist for them. That takes care of the public land killing opportunities and opens up more hunting for people that arent rich as hell.

So do they not sell grain, hay or cows for profit too? Do you not expect to get dividend’s/interest when you loan out your income investment’s.

I guess you rent out your house for free?

UW program leases their land out to the general public.

I guess you are against all the other land access lease programs?

 

[MattB]

It forces the landowners to actually HAVE hunting on their ranches. So yes, it solves that problem. Hunting at night and out of season is illegal, and they will go to HELL For it.

You are obviously not understanding the point. Hunting at night and out of season are illegal, but in NM going out and killing elk in your crops at night isn’t - and that’s the alternative that you are unwittingly proposing for landowners who can’t monetize ranch-only tags and who get unit-wide tags.

 

[yfarm]

I did a 2 year audit on our operating expenses on a 600 acre parcel in Iowa, 3/4 row crop,1/4 CRP. Came to a conclusion that everyone involved with crop production is making a decent living except for the landowner who has capital invested in land which produces little or no return year after year driven by market control by large agribusiness companies. Our options are to convert crp to row crop or sell to real estate developers. Compare a midwest ag operation with a south Texas or New Mexico cow calf operation and the numbers are far worse. In meetings with county extension agents producers ask what they should do, no response aside from find a different product to raise. Hunting leases generate more revenue per year than any other activity aside from the fortunate few with oil/gas leases in south Texas. Landowners are responding to what the market is for the product, cut demand,prices will fall.

 

[Fredcohunter]

How much is a LO tag in the 16's ? Ill tell you, its 20-25k now. Then 850.00 to the state for the tag. Then 15-17k to an outfitter (if you are using one). That is the generally outrageous shit im referring to. Someone paying 2500 for a LO tag to hunt DIY isnt really a big deal in a crap unit. However, even those dont really exist any more. Landowners are only using these for profit. They arent depending on that to run the ranch. If they are, they should probably sell out or get someone to manage it that can do a better job of making money on it.

How much is too much? What amount should a LO be able to sell a tag for? The system certainly isnt perfect but what would you suggest as an alternative that still allows hunters access to game while respecting property rights for private land owners?

 

[KHNC]

How much is too much? What amount should a LO be able to sell a tag for? The system certainly isnt perfect but what would you suggest as an alternative that still allows hunters access to game while respecting property rights for private land owners?

The suggestion the guy had about putting the current UW LO tags in the draw and letting them sell the Ranch Only tags for whatever price they choose. I would agree with that .

 

[KHNC]

So do they not sell grain, hay or cows for profit too? Do you not expect to get dividend’s/interest when you loan out your income investment’s.

I guess you rent out your house for free?

UW program leases their land out to the general public.

I guess you are against all the other land access lease programs?

This about getting tags to hunt. Nothing else. Only way to get more tags to hunt is to take away UW tags and put them in the regular draw. Hell, I would even go along with having a separate draw (like wyoming special) for UW LO tags. At least it limits the cost to the same for everyone and opens opportunity.

 

[roadrunner]

The very topic of eplus being an issue is what is irrelevant…that’s the tone. you did miss it

we have way more important shit to worry about than a landowner making a few grand off a tag while in enrolled in a program that has actual benefits…

the eplus thing pops up every year when folks realize they didn’t draw…

Then don't post on an irrelevant topic if it's irritating to you.

You can pretend I missed the tone all you want. Your post has absolutely nothing to do with the thread...

 

[RockAndSage]

Landowners are only using these for profit. They arent depending on that to run the ranch. If they are, they should probably sell out or get someone to manage it that can do a better job of making money on it.

^^^ How to tell the world you're clueless about running a ranch or a business without directly saying it...

 

[RockAndSage]

How much is a LO tag in the 16's ? Ill tell you, its 20-25k now. Then 850.00 to the state for the tag. Then 15-17k to an outfitter (if you are using one). That is the generally outrageous shit im referring to.

^^^ How to tell the world you're jealous of other people's money and success without directly saying it...

 

[Fredcohunter]

The suggestion the guy had about putting the current UW LO tags in the draw and letting them sell the Ranch Only tags for whatever price they choose. I would agree with that .

Im no expert but doesnt the property that receives a UW LO tag have to be in the primary management zone?