Jimbee
WKR
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2020
- Messages
- 1,106
I don't see an issue with a landowner getting a tag for their own property for their own use.
In Montana Turner bought several ranches. And in doing so has artificially driven land prices up. We'll him and all the out of state money. This has been very hard on the agriculture community as the next generation has lost a place to buy or rent.Ted Turner has two 100k acre + ranches here, both holding tons of game. Their prices are actually reasonable, compared to the going rate for Unit Wide tags (I bought my son an Oryx tag last year). They have a sizeable staff that manages everything - cowboys to move animals, maintenance for water tanks, roads, gates, multiple biologists to monitor for disease and population, cooks, cleaning staff, etc. It's a money making operation for sure, but not just some auto-managed private Yellowstone.
There just aren't that many 1,000 acre + ranches where these Billionaires can do what you're thinking, and most would rather make money off it by selling hunts. Maybe they do help themselves to a bull or two a year, but not the scenario you're imagining.
The whole concept of the north American model is against this. Just bc you own the land doesn't mean you own the animals. There is no "the kings deer".So you don't feel landowners should get tags to the animals on their land? So if you owned 100k acres and you didn't draw a tag, you don't get to hunt?
If there were only draw tags and no LO tags, we would end up in the same boat. There would be too many people on public and all the elk would head for private. The land owners would sell access to the land.
How did he drive up land prices?In Montana Turner bought several ranches. And in doing so has artificially driven land prices up. We'll him and all the out of state money. This has been very hard on the agriculture community as the next generation has lost a place to buy or rent.
From a big picture/long game view I see no upside to LO tags.
The wildlife is owned by the state. However, having the right to protect your private property from a state interests is paramount in private property rights.Haha yeah I get that sentiment. Don't have the money yet but in 10 year it's something I would consider. But still, it feels dirty. The wildlife is supposed to be owned by the people of the state and held in trust by the state for the people. And the resource allocated democratically. This is just the opposite of that.
What if you substituted elk with water in this discussion. Would you still feel the same?The wildlife is owned by the state. However, having the right to protect your private property from a state interests is paramount in private property rights.
It sucks. But, I’ll take private property rights over state interests any day. And, if you are eligible to receive tags as LO yo sell, good for you. That’s the way it should be.
There isn’t a lot going on in rural New Mexico. It’s nice to see a state trying to help landowners maximize their investments. Versus just swoop in and stomp all over them.
The whole concept of the North American model is exactly LO tags, and private land conservation.The whole concept of the north American model is against this. Just bc you own the land doesn't mean you own the animals. There is no "the kings deer".
Simple. People used to have to make a living off ranches. As you know that means you can't pay more per acre than the land can produce. Whether that be through agriculture or ranching. But those days are gone. Now people like Turner lock up land and remove it from the available pool for traditional uses.How did he drive up land prices?
I’m a ranch/farm owner and been increasing acreage over past 4 decades. There is nothing that Turner has done to increase land prices. Normal eve and flow.
Turners actually pretty good at conservation easements, vs subdividing. Now he may of taken
Land out of the grazing lease market but I thought people hated cattle out west….
I encourage different opinions and an open discussion.The whole concept of the North American model is exactly LO tags, and private land conservation.
numerous species wouldn’t exist with out LO conservation. Tule elk is a perfect example.
Minute LO incentive is lost more wildlife will be lost to competition of domestic grazing etc.
if I can make a living on my ranch, is the day I turn it into a subdivision. only choice I have.
No it’s the opposite, The North American conservation model doesnt exist when there is no incentive for wildlife to co-exist with agriculture.
with out private land conservation lots of species wouldn’t exist. Wild Turkeys and Tule Elk are perfect examples.
Majority of winter habitat is Private
Unit wide LO tags should be taken away!!! Im ok with Ranch Only tags. Unit wide is nothing more than a way for high roller ranch owners to make a shit load of money off them, and to further prevent people from being able to use them in the draw. ALL unit wide tags should be added to the regular draw.
killed for Legitimate purpose is Domestic conflict. Let’s go back to Depredation on demand, of early 1900’s.I encourage different opinions and an open discussion.
But I feel obligated to point out that the North American Model for wildlife conservation is more than random opinions and is an actual document created from lessons in history to protect the future of hunting.
Here are the 7 principles and I would encourage others to look into the whole thing. Education never hurts even if you don't agree.
As you will learn the NAMWC is violated in two forms in NM: LO tags and creating a market for wildlife. You will look back in 50 years and agree....unless you’re wealthy.
Or perhaps they can be a way for people whose property may only have elk out of season (wintering ground) or at night (crops but no bedding cover) to be compensated for the costs they incur? An alternative to offering landowners in those situations unit wide tags is that they go out at night with spotlights and kill the elk so no one can hunt them - and that has happened.Unit wide LO tags should be taken away!!! Im ok with Ranch Only tags. Unit wide is nothing more than a way for high roller ranch owners to make a shit load of money off them, and to further prevent people from being able to use them in the draw. ALL unit wide tags should be added to the regular draw.
Never said they own the animal. If the animals are on private land, it doesn't matter if they belong to the public, the public would only have access through the land owners.The whole concept of the north American model is against this. Just bc you own the land doesn't mean you own the animals. There is no "the kings deer".