New Rifle Build- Bullet and Caliber- Mono metal- Thoughts?

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

As you start talking about the 6.5PRC make sure you play with the numbers to make sure you haven't left your original goal behind. Also if you're a 1 gun guy that isn't ideal for practice (just go get a second gun btw ).

Monos you don't go long/heavy but in my opinion don't go the lightest either because you tend to loose out due to loss of BC sooner than later (play with the numbers in specific cases). In 7mms I tend to shoot monos in the 130-145gr range for instance.

Skip the 280rem, 6.5-06 type options unless you plan to replace the bottom metal for something that handles a longer COAL. If you ever want to hunt CO (or some other places) don't hang your hat on 223 as an option at the moment (but you might as well get one for practice ).

I usually hunt monos and the kids currently use a 243win with the 80ttsx (its a 10 twist), I'd like to eventually spin up a faster twist 6creed. But if I'm honest I am leery about them using the 243win on larger game at longer ranges with the 80ttsx because like you I'm worried about less wound channel from the mono. That said it's dropped deer and antelope well to date out to 350yd. Haven't played with DRT or the Cayuga which could be options I try in the future.

I pulled the barrel off a 7-08 and put on a 19" 284win this year because I didn't want to loose so much velocity while going with a shorter barrel. No kills get with it but the 131hammer is still 2150-2200fps out at 500yd at my altitude. I couldn't get the 139LRX to group well in my initial load work so far. With a suppressor I don't loose sight picture shooting prone but that is prone which is easier to manage.

BTW I don't have the answer for you because I have multiple tikka actions things that appeal to me range, 6creed, 6-284, 284win as I've got. I have various 6 and 7mm so I am trying not to be tempted by 257creed, 257-284, 6.5-284... but you can be tempted all you want.

 

[Formidilosus]

I guess what I'm really asking is, how much can a guy lean towards smaller cartridges (the Rokslide .223 angle,) when one is planning on using mono-metals. Or, put in a different way; How much increase in permanent wound channel does one see between 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, .308, when using the bullets I outlined above .

You can’t tell a functional difference with the same type of bullet with any caliber.

Along with:

When using mono-metals should one abandon the usual "long, heavy for caliber bullet" goal and go for smaller, faster bullets to increase impact speeds and aid in expansion.

Thanks

No. You are making this way harder than it is- 6 creedmoor and 95gr DRT. Second choice bullet (and by quite a ways), Barnes 95gr LRX.

If you are open to .22 cals, the 22 creedmoor and 79gr DRT, and 77gr Barnes LRX are even better than 6mm.

 

[Superx3]

6mm creed or 6mm Remington since you are already an 06 length action. I would stay 6mm or bigger for legality in Colorado. 260 Remington AI or 7-08AI with lighter monos are plenty fast and flat shooting. So many options not a single one is wrong!

 

[ElPollo]

You can’t tell a functional difference with the same type of bullet with any caliber.




No. You are making this way harder than it is- 6 creedmoor and 95gr DRT. Second choice bullet (and by quite a ways), Barnes 95gr LRX.

If you are open to .22 cals, the 22 creedmoor and 79gr DRT, and 77gr Barnes LRX are even better than 6mm.

I’m curious about how many animals you’ve seen taken with the 6cm/243 and 95 gr DRT combo and how those wound channels compare to your ideal shape and depth. Anything you can share about your observations?

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

lil more BC on those DRTs would be pretty sweet too.

 

[LightFoot]

Another vote for 280AI.


>>>——JAKE——>

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Another vote for 280AI.


>>>——JAKE——>

Not in a Tikka t3, it’s neutered.

 

[DagOtto]

I’d think you’d be able to swap bolts straight across with someone here who wants to make a 6 creed out of their 300 win mag.

Thanks for that, I bet you are right and didn't know that it was a full bolt swap. I'm used to Defiance with changeable bolt heads. This seems much easier!

 

[DagOtto]

As you start talking about the 6.5PRC make sure you play with the numbers to make sure you haven't left your original goal behind. Also if you're a 1 gun guy that isn't ideal for practice (just go get a second gun btw ).

Monos you don't go long/heavy but in my opinion don't go the lightest either because you tend to loose out due to loss of BC sooner than later (play with the numbers in specific cases). In 7mms I tend to shoot monos in the 130-145gr range for instance.

I pulled the barrel off a 7-08 and put on a 19" 284win this year because I didn't want to loose so much velocity while going with a shorter barrel. No kills get with it but the 131hammer is still 2150-2200fps out at 500yd at my altitude. I couldn't get the 139LRX to group well in my initial load work so far. With a suppressor I don't loose sight picture shooting prone but that is prone which is easier to manage.

BTW I don't have the answer for you because I have multiple tikka actions things that appeal to me range, 6creed, 6-284, 284win as I've got. I have various 6 and 7mm so I am trying not to be tempted by 257creed, 257-284, 6.5-284... but you can be tempted all you want.

Thanks for the thoughts.

I did use 4dof and looked at three different mono copper loads and their ballistic performance out to 600 yards. It was easy to use 30-06 factory ammo since they have a 150, 165 and 180 grain gmx all loaded with superformance powders. Using Hornady's muzzle velocities the 150 grain bullet wins the race to the 600 yard line moving at 1927 fps while the 165 grain comes in at 1892 and the 180 grain arrives late to the party traveling at 1870.. (special note that even the fastest of these is below the velocity required for this bullet tow work reliably!)

I see no reason why this relationship of stats would not hold true for similar BC bullets in different calibers, and the conclusion I'm leaning towards is that within the 600 yard limit i've set as a goal that the 'ole "use heavy for caliber, higher BC bullets" argument doesn't hold water.

Being a curious person, I did the same analysis for 178 grain and 195 grain ELDM in 300 win mag. Again using data from 4DOF. At 600 yards the 178 grain bullet is moving at 2080 and the 300 grain bullet is 2106. (a tie from an effectiveness perspecitve.) This appears to shows me a few thing:. First, a higher BC bullet in a heavier longer configuration will catch and pass it's lighter and shorter twin sibling faster than a lower BC bulet. And second, given that I personally don't care about anything past 600 yards the "longer, heavier for caiber" discussion isn't applicable. I'd argue here (stepping outside my personal world,) that it shouldn't matter for 99 percent of game hunters either.

Given that we know copper craves speed to opening up, the answer I see here is to load the lightest copper bullet you can for the caliber. ESPECIALLY, given the response I now see from Form.

Also:

I totally forgot that there are FWP regs to consider. (I'm in Montana) and that is very important for this rifle as I imagine it would become my preferred travel rifle if planning on back-country or tough mountain hunts. I did just check New Zealand regs as I plan on hunting there again soon and anything larger than .22 is kosher. Alaska doesn't appear to have any min. caliber rules in place.

 

[Formidilosus]

I’m curious about how many animals you’ve seen taken with the 6cm/243 and 95 gr DRT combo and how those wound channels compare to your ideal shape and depth. Anything you can share about your observations?

Not many in total. I have seen testing, as well as the few animals have shown what is the best wound channels from a lead free projectile currently available.

 

[amassi]

Thanks for the thoughts.

I did use 4dof and looked at three different mono copper loads and their ballistic performance out to 600 yards. It was easy to use 30-06 factory ammo since they have a 150, 165 and 180 grain gmx all loaded with superformance powders. Using Hornady's muzzle velocities the 150 grain bullet wins the race to the 600 yard line moving at 1927 fps while the 165 grain comes in at 1892 and the 180 grain arrives late to the party traveling at 1870.. (special note that even the fastest of these is below the velocity required for this bullet tow work reliably!)

I see no reason why this relationship of stats would not hold true for similar BC bullets in different calibers, and the conclusion I'm leaning towards is that within the 600 yard limit i've set as a goal that the 'ole "use heavy for caliber, higher BC bullets" argument doesn't hold water.

Being a curious person, I did the same analysis for 178 grain and 195 grain ELDM in 300 win mag. Again using data from 4DOF. At 600 yards the 178 grain bullet is moving at 2080 and the 300 grain bullet is 2106. (a tie from an effectiveness perspecitve.) This appears to shows me a few thing:. First, a higher BC bullet in a heavier longer configuration will catch and pass it's lighter and shorter twin sibling faster than a lower BC bulet. And second, given that I personally don't care about anything past 600 yards the "longer, heavier for caiber" discussion isn't applicable. I'd argue here (stepping outside my personal world,) that it shouldn't matter for 99 percent of game hunters either.

Given that we know copper craves speed to opening up, the answer I see here is to load the lightest copper bullet you can for the caliber. ESPECIALLY, given the response I now see from Form.

Also:

I totally forgot that there are FWP regs to consider. (I'm in Montana) and that is very important for this rifle as I imagine it would become my preferred travel rifle if planning on back-country or tough mountain hunts. I did just check New Zealand regs as I plan on hunting there again soon and anything larger than .22 is kosher. Alaska doesn't appear to have any min. caliber rules in place.

Your going to be big sad with the gmx/cx line at 1900 fps.


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[Jason Snyder]

When using mono-metals should one abandon the usual "long, heavy for caliber bullet" goal and go for smaller, faster bullets to increase impact speeds and aid in expansion.

Yes. I’ve found the 118-124 range for the 6.5 CM gives very good velocity and works fine with factory twist rates.

43 grains of H4350 gets a 124 Hammer Hunter up to 3k fps, with 1900 fps at 600 yards. Plenty for what you’re looking to do.

I’m shooting this out of a 7 pound scoped combo and it is very pleasant to shoot.

 

[DagOtto]

You can’t tell a functional difference with the same type of bullet with any caliber.

Snap- thanks for that answer. Stunning as it is, I know there are a bajillion posts on Rokslide looking at autopsies and proving this out. Just haven't read them yet.

No. You are making this way harder than it is- 6 creedmoor and 95gr DRT. Second choice bullet (and by quite a ways), Barnes 95gr LRX.

Got it, thanks. Is the DRT needing high velocity to perform as do all the mono-metals? I can't find any minimum velocity for terminal performance published by DRT?

And can you provide any back-story or data as to how you came to this recommendation? Field testing or did you see gel testing?

Thanks

 

[amassi]

Not in a Tikka t3, it’s neutered.

Only if your trying to shoot 175+ grain pills
The 150 eld-x fits beautifully in a tikka magazine
168 bergers and 160 tmk also magazine feed
All 3 carry upset velocity well beyond 800 yards asl
Much further in elevation

 

[SDHNTR]

I have a 7 twist 6.5 prc with 124 hammers pushed hard. It has worked very well on deer/elk and would be perfect for your use case.

This

 

[SDHNTR]

Or 6-06, or 6.5-06.

 

[DagOtto]

Your going to be big sad with the gmx/cx line at 1900 fps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed, I've seen partial peeling performance with these bullets at even higher speeds than that. I built a .308 and shot animals with CX and Federal Trophy Copper at various distances out to 325 yards. Animals died, but out of the three recovered bullets I was able to retrieve, only one was peeled all the way back to the solid bullet base. And one was peeled only 25% or so.

Sold that gun when I realized that .308s pumpkin throwing velocities didn't match well with my desire to use copper.

Now, for this new gun, I am using 2200 as minimum affective velocity for all the standard monos. I was assuming (hoping) that the petal losing types of mono metals would allow me to lower that to 1800 or so... But Forms post above seems to infer that Barnes LRX has a lower minimum affective velocity than those others. Their 6mm Creedmore factory load with the 95 grain LRX is smoking along at 2100 fps at 500 yards which seems good.

 

[DagOtto]

180ls1 said:


I have a 7 twist 6.5 prc with 124 hammers pushed hard. It has worked very well on deer/elk and would be perfect for your use case.

----------------------

Nice! Have you ever found a recovered bullet or taken photos of the vitals to see the damage done? I'm curious to see if wounding from Hammers tends to be higher than the 1.5-2x diameter wounding that the standard mono metals give.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Nice! Have you ever found a recovered bullet or taken photos of the vitals to see the damage done? I'm curious to see if wounding from Hammers tends to be higher than the 1.5-2x diameter wounding that the standard mono metals give.

I don’t have photos, but I have used Barnes and Hammers for 25 years now. Anecdotally, I see better wound channels with the Hammers.

 

[Jason Snyder]

If it were me I’d get a 1:7 twist barrel for a
6 CM and load the 104 HHT. You should easily hit 3000-3100 with a shorter suppressed barrel.