New Private Land Ownership Bill Proposed in ND

[Broomd]

...
... If its not posted- hunt it. If its posted, call them and ask.

This isn't good for the number of hunters... I would guess it will decrease opportunity for private land hunting.

Unfortunately there is a segment of the hunting population that won't hesitate to tear down 'posted' signs. It's a shame and it ruins it for everyone.
As you may know, this ND debate is one that we just had here in Idaho.

 

[NDGuy]

In the states I've hunted if you don't have permission you can not access the land.

This is the route it was originally going to be, but now they have changed it to a 3 tier system to posting land that is updated yearly via some online database.

Make it black and white, easy for all involved at least everyone knows what is expected then.

 

[NDGuy]

Unfortunately there is a segment of the hunting population that won't hesitate to tear down 'posted' signs. It's a shame and it ruins it for everyone.

This is my main point, these types of people don't care anyways. All this is doing is making it confusing for everyone else both landowner and hunter and wasting money.

 

[Broomd]

I can throw right back at them with today's laws, why not take a weekend and post your land with a permanent metal sign?
....

You mean a sign with a nail or screw in it? Life expectancy of about 24 hours in some places. Fortunately most hunters are good people, they care about their reputation and honor posted ground. But there are exceptions.
Edit>>>just saw your latest post, ND.

 

[william schmaltz]

Personally I agree with it, I don’t see what’s so hard about staying off private land especially with today’s technology. I shouldn’t have to post a “Get off my Lawn” sign to keep people off my property. But this is just my personal feelings. Are you ok if I come take your truck for a drive until you put a sticker in the window letting me know I can’t just drive it whenever I feel like it?

I think this is a difficult topic for people who have never hunted in North Dakota to understand. These are not small operations. They are huge. Most of the land owners don't care if people hunt. Large portions are unposted and open for hunting on purpose. Or they may have 2,000 acres and post the 250 "good" acres for their deer hunting and leave the rest unmarked for bird hunters and the guy driving around with his 14 year old kid looking for a place to walk in for a doe. This type of land will just stay unposted and unless you are a local, you won't have a clue who owns it or where to start asking for permission. The number of pheasants and geese I've shot off this type of land just driving by and taking advantage of pure opportunity on open land is through the roof.

The guys that don't want people in will continue to post their land to drive the point across. Nothing will change there. It's the huge areas of land that was unposted and open but now will be unposted but closed that will take a hit. Everyone will have their opinion about if they agree on the merits and everyone is free to their opinion - but it will hurt hunting. There is no argument on that fact; and that is my main concern on the issue.

 

[tdhanses]

I can throw right back at them with today's laws, why not take a weekend and post your land with a permanent metal sign?

A hell of a lot easier said than done concerning apps and technology, it's never up to date and 100% accurate. Which leads to conflicts between hunter, landowner, and law enforcement. If they are going to the route of private is private that is fine, but do not make it so difficult and confusing to maintain.

Make it all No hunting without permission. Period. Black and White with no grey area.

Like I said, I just feel private shouldn’t be required to be posted, we don’t have to agree and I understand everyone is used to it. Quick question, do you think it’ll be hard to obtain access or permission to properties traditionally never posted?

I would assume the land owners that don’t want people on their property already post, so why not just ask permission?

 

[tdhanses]

I think this is a difficult topic for people who have never hunted in North Dakota to understand. These are not small operations. They are huge. Most of the land owners don't care if people hunt. Large portions are unposted and open for hunting on purpose. Or they may have 2,000 acres and post the 250 "good" acres for their deer hunting and leave the rest unmarked for bird hunters and the guy driving around with his 14 year old kid looking for a place to walk in for a doe. This type of land will just stay unposted and unless you are a local, you won't have a clue who owns it or where to start asking for permission. The number of pheasants and geese I've shot off this type of land just driving by and taking advantage of pure opportunity on open land is through the roof.

The guys that don't want people in will continue to post their land. Nothing will change there. It's the huge areas of land that was unposted and open but now will be unposted but closed that will take a hit. Everyone will have their opinion about if they agree on the merits and everyone is free to their opinion - but it will hurt hunting. There is no argument on that fact; and that is my main concern on the issue.

Do you think these operations would not grant permission with this change?

 

[william schmaltz]

Do you think these operations would not grant permission with this change?

Yes, I think they would. The majority of counties do not provide land ownership information. So if guys do not post it with their information, it's going to be a goat rope figuring that information out. It's not uncommon for guys to have several sections of crop land 10 miles or more from their farmstead so it's not simply knocking on the closest door.

 

[NDGuy]

Schmaltz hit the nail on the head. We have huge farm operations and it's near impossible to get a hold of who you need to get permission. Some of these owners have no involvement outside of collecting rent/lease checks and live 1000s of miles away. Again goes back to my point of making it way more difficult for everyone. Spending hours of time finding good areas of land only to never get a hold of who you need to.

 

[Brendan]

Similar situation to New England states. Unless a town ordinance is in place or it is legally posted, private land is open to legal hunting. Stems from the days when private paper and timber companies owned large swaths of land they didn't want closed.

The difference here is its hard to find a place to hunt as is, and getting permission is very difficult.

 

[jmez]

Are private land owners the one pushing this?

 

[NDGuy]

Are private land owners the one pushing this?

Yes and politicians with pockets lined from them. Oil companies I am sure too.

I have never met a farmer who was not friendly and treated me with respect even if they said no. It's the loaded people living in the big towns or other states that are usually pricks.

 

[dirtytough]

It will affect you when more and more people are pushed onto public due to this bill. ND does not have the public land that MT and MN does so until that improves the quality of public land will decrease more and more with crap like this.

That is where line 3 came in. I see this doing 3 things. Using up valuable G&F resources, lowering hunter numbers, and making the public more crowded.

And if it costs the G&F more money, plus having less hunters, license and tags will go up. Then with increased pressure and a lower quality hunt you have less recruitment and less hunter dollars. Pretty soon it is the city's that are running the state.

Personally I agree with it, I don’t see what’s so hard about staying off private land especially with today’s technology. I shouldn’t have to post a “Get off my Lawn” sign to keep people off my property. But this is just my personal feelings. Are you ok if I come take your truck for a drive until you put a sticker in the window letting me know I can’t just drive it whenever I feel like it?

I actually agree and don't. I think it is stupid and a waste of resources the way they are going about it. Either leave it the way it is, or make it illegal to trespass unless you have permission. Wasting money on a database that the G&F will have to maintain that won't increase access is just dumb. They should spend that money to buy access on private instead of wasting it.

 

[Rich M]

Similar situation to New England states. Unless a town ordinance is in place or it is legally posted, private land is open to legal hunting. Stems from the days when private paper and timber companies owned large swaths of land they didn't want closed.

The difference here is its hard to find a place to hunt as is, and getting permission is very difficult.

I'm from New England - we hunted VT and ME in the 70s and 80s, the 90s things started drying up. NH is the only state I am aware of that allows hunting on nonposted land. Thought I heard that was changing.

In FL, GA, SC if you don't have permission you can not access the land. In FL it is a felony for armed trespass if you have a hunting weapon.

I can definitely appreciate the tradition and the opportunities many folks allow. I thought most of the western states were like WY where you can't even drive on a non-numbered road during hunting season.

Pretty much sucks to see these kind of changes.

 

[Brendan]

I'm from New England - we hunted VT and ME in the 70s and 80s, the 90s things started drying up. NH is the only state I am aware of that allows hunting on nonposted land. Thought I heard that was changing.

Maine, Vermont, NH, and Mass are that way. I've hunted all 4, currently NH and Mass.

 

[KJH]

In the states I've hunted if you don't have permission you can not access the land. It is really simple to understand and follow. In WY you can't even drive on half the roads without trespassing.

Lots of changes as more and more folks head west to hunt.

The point I was respectfully trying to make is that there is an abundance of land available to hunt now in ND because unposted land can be hunted. Where I hunt very little land is posted across all 3 counties. The average guy can take his kids hunting pheasant or duck for a couple of hours and go home. Once land gets posted this becomes harder to do and the next generation isn't raised hunting because they don't have many places to go. Public land or PLOTS becomes a hot commodity and is over hunted. Over time, hunter numbers begin to decline and there is less money for conservation and less hunting and firearm advocates because they don't see the importance of it. It won't affect us as much but the next two generations are less likely to place a priority on hunting if their immediate family doesn't do it much or at all.

I get the private is private, and 100% agree with it. In ND if you don't want people on your land, then post it and they can't hunt without permission. Really simple and something that people from other states don't usually comprehend. Doing away with this in ND is just the end of a nostalgic era of embracing hunting and where the average guy can hunt by home without the expense and time commitment of a trip. Less convenient places to hunt will eventually lead to less hunters. Having an abundance of places to hunt "easily" is 9/10 of the hunter recruitment issue.

I'm glad I have access to more ND land than I could ever hunt in my two weeks as a NR. I usually hardly ever see another hunter as it is now. I suspect less and less once more land is posted.

Just my opinion and it isn't worth anything to anyone but me.

 

[Rich M]

KJH -

I wasn't trying to be a jerk - wish more states would have more lenient trespass laws like ND.

I've been hunting deer 40 years and went from free access everywhere to No Trespass signs, residential and commercial developments, and outfitter leased lands - this is New England and down south I'm talking about. In FL, I'm down to a 3 to 5-day wildlife management area hunt or two every year and the only place we hunt ducks is a national wildlife refuge that has high competition for quota permits (we do preference points too - for 100# deer). FL is up to 21 million people now and growing - that means less land to hunt and less opportunity on state/federal land.

Just saying I can feel the pain in ways you now understand. The whole trespass thing and preference point thing makes it difficult to hunt - it is not surprising that hunter numbers are going down. The only way for folks in FL to "really" hunt is to head north where the restrictions are less and then we gum up the works there.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I have a buddy from North Dakota and we have gone back to his hometown to pheasant hunt. I remember driving down seemingly endless roads that separated stuble fields. Orange hat on the dashboard. If you see birds, you pull over, walk into the field and start hunting. While that is standard operating procedure around there, I was uncomfortable with it... being from Georgia, where either you have permission or you don't, and you better stay off unless you want trouble or be known around town as a poacher.

Like the previous poster, in my mind, something is either yours or it isn't.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Current ND law is if someone does not post their land you can access it for hunting/fishing purposes. That's why we have a lot of non resident waterfowlers and pheasant hunters come to the state.

I grew up in a posted state, I like it much better now that posted isn’t required. For the life of me I can see why you should have to go through the burden of saying this isn’t your land. If you want to open your land to the public then you should post it with a land access sign. The limited liability statues that go with access programs are a huge selling point also

 

[NDGuy]

Like the previous poster, in my mind, something is either yours or it isn't.

Yep so post the land you don’t want people hunting, pretty simple and most landowners already do it and most follow it. You’ll have 99% of people respect it. Those that don’t won’t either way. Like others said, we in ND were all born and raised this way just like you were born and raised without it.

The whole issue for me is this isn’t an issue to begin with for most people I talk to. So why does it need to be changed? Small minority of people on both sides ruining it for all.