New Private Land Ownership Bill Proposed in ND

[NDGuy]

*Disclaimer* for those of you who aren't familiar with ND, the current law is any private property that is unposted or not posted properly is huntable by sportsman. This bill was looking to change that.

Brief summary:
A new bill was introduced to ND legislature and passed by the senate yesterday. The bill initially was to make all ND private land restricted to hunting without permission regardless of posted signage. There was a lot of opposition to this bill and there are now revisions to it. The main changes were to implement an online database that would require landowners to fill out each year what status the land is. Then signage would apparently be placed at the section with a color designating the status.

The categories are:
1. Green-open access to public for outdoor recreation
2. Yellow-Restricted access to sportsman but may grant permission
3. Red-Closed to sportsman

If landowners do not choose anything the land will default to green is the way I understood. Personally I think this is good in theory but will never be implemented in a way that is beneficial. This giant database sounds expensive to maintain and I do not see how you could update it effectively and with 100% accuracy.

What happens when a landowner decided to post stuff middle of the season? Talk about difficulty updating everyone (especially non residents) with all the ways of navigation nowadays. I also can imagine how difficult it will be to get a hold of some of these landowners, some don't even live in the state and sublease everything out!

I guess I don't see what is so hard about posting your stuff, the guys that break rules don't give a crap anyway so why punish everyone else? I think I would prefer the all or none approach vs this 3 levels of posted nonsense. At least then it's black and white what you can or cannot hunt without permission. This just makes it more difficult and confusing for everyone involved.

Bill itself:
Bill 2315
Couple of threads on it
Here
Here

 

[go4thegusto]

I agree and have been monitoring closely. Emails from North Dakota Bowhunters Assoc have helped. (please join)
This now goes over to the House where they can slice and dice into an unrecognizable bill to this current proposal so contact your representative!
One landowner stood up at the hearing holding his phone in the air and said hunters can get everything they need on OnX and other apps. That is a fallacy that needs to be clarified. If you click details you get "Joes' Angus LLC" or "Marge Johnson. etal" who is likely dead or in a home and it is tied up in an estate. No info on who to contact or a phone#.
Worst case for me is if this gets jammed through ( likely with this regime) the landowner should have to register a living contact person with active cell number on yearly tax statement that gets registered with Deeds office and downloads on to apps.
All in all I bet this kills tourism and cuts waterfowl, pheasant, and other hunters in half. I would think communities and chambers would be up in arms.

 

[dirtytough]

I have been following along. I only hunt public so it doesn't really affect me access wise. That being said I have a few thoughts on it.

1. One area I hunt by private the landowner has his land posted extremely well with metal signs. I have never seen someone trespass nor any of his signs laying on the ground. It doesn't seem like an issue if you post your land properly?

2. How much is this going to cost us? The game and fish already has to spend a ton of resources to verify gratis tags. Now they have to spend more resources to maintain a database?

3. In the grasslands you have ranchers running atv's all over areas closed to motorized vehicles to check cattle and water. Maybe the rules should apply to everyone? They can walk or ride a horse. If the public land is going to get more crowded we don't need ranchers on atv's making it worse.

Instead of having this database that is going to cost a ton of money they need to make it either illegal without written permission or leave it as is. It is only going to use up more resources and do nothing to improve landowner/non landowner relationships.

 

[three5x5s]

The bill initially was to make all ND private land restricted to hunting without permission regardless of posted signage.
If its not your its not yours, what would make anyone think they could hunt without permission.

If landowners do not choose anything the land will default to green.
How much land does one need to own to be a landowner?? Would a .3 acre front yard that defaulted to green be open to sportsman??

 

[NDGuy]

If its not your its not yours, what would make anyone think they could hunt without permission.

Current ND law is if someone does not post their land you can access it for hunting/fishing purposes. That's why we have a lot of non resident waterfowlers and pheasant hunters come to the state.

 

[NDGuy]

I only hunt public so it doesn't really affect me access wise.

It will affect you when more and more people are pushed onto public due to this bill. ND does not have the public land that MT and MN does so until that improves the quality of public land will decrease more and more with crap like this.

 

[5MilesBack]

Current ND law is if someone does not post their land you can access it for hunting/fishing purposes. That's why we have a lot of non resident waterfowlers and pheasant hunters come to the state.

Ya, and that's pretty messed up IMO. If it's open to all, then it's not really private. It's kind of like our southern border........they all just assume that it's open to all to come right in to. Not a fan of that mentality. What's mine is yours and what's yours is mine seems a little too communal for my preferences. Even with the old law, there would be no way that I would hunt private without permission from the landowner. IMO the State and their laws are NOT the landowner, so don't care that the state says it's OK.

 

[NDGuy]

Not a fan of that mentality. What's mine is yours and what's yours is mine seems a little too communal for my preferences. Even with the old law, there would be no way that I would hunt private without permission from the landowner. IMO the State and their laws are NOT the landowner, so don't care that the state says it's OK.

I agree to an extent but we do not have the public land opportunities that other states have. Most do ask permission already for deer or other big game hunting. But an unposted slough with mallards or pheasants? Most would stop and hunt them.

The thing about it is why does that much and expensive of change need to be done? The landowners that actually give a shit already post their land, those that don’t care don’t post and under this new law it would still be huntable anyways.

So what is this accomplishing?

Most ND residents I’m sure would gladly pay extra to provide money for G&F or whomever to put up permanent posted signs for whom ever wants them and would solve all of it without wasting all the $$$ and making it confusing for all involved. Not to mention the loss in revenue from out of state hunters. (especially waterfowl and pheasant hunters)

I’m much more in favor of private land is private and you can’t access without permission. Black and white without any of the busy work and wasted money.

 

[go4thegusto]

Lets try and not get in to 'regional elitism". This is vast open country with very little public land. I was born and raised in ND and have enjoyed great relationships with landowners. Yes, I usually ask permission whether posted or not but there are countless acres of privately owned grazing or agricultural land where the landowner is a nonresident at least not living in the area, and does not care if you chase some geese in his plowed up field.
We have a heritage here allowing that access and it is simple to post otherwise. I see posting in the west in "no trespass states" also just to remind I guess.
There are things I don't care for in other states but I avoid criticizing those things where I don't have a full understanding or am not impacted by them
No matter how you shake it this is yet another strike against hunting and hunters. Loss of access is #1 in every hunter attrition survey I have ever seen. Our numbers are shrinking and along with that goes G&F funding, Pittman Robertson, the general vote etc.

 

[KJH]

I hunt a lot in ND... Many of the places I hunt get posted the week before deer season and then get signs taken down in the spring. They don't care if you hunt for ducks, geese, or pheasants but just want to keep the deer hunting to themselves. I know this is the case because they are all close friends doing the posting of their land.

I think this would backfire for keeping hunting more accessible. These guy will just post it instead of leaving it unposted if its a hassle to them. I don't understand what's wrong with it now? Seems to work just fine... If its not posted- hunt it. If its posted, call them and ask.

This isn't good for the number of hunters... I would guess it will decrease opportunity for private land hunting.

 

[three5x5s]

Thanks, You need written permission (from the owner) on your person to hunt private land here in Ky. As a land owner I would rather the law would default to RED if no choice was made. The Green default will cause a lot of confusion. ND may be way ahead of Ky. and I hope your are, but for Ky. I fear there would be a lot of land owners that would never know they were granting hunting/fishing rights by default. By no means am I against access it just makes more sense to make a conscious decision to grant access. not grant access by doing nothing.

 

[Schaaf]

ND has it good right now. This would be a bad deal.

I know the ND Wildlife Federation and the ND BHA Chapter are working on these as well.

 

[Rich M]

This isn't good for the number of hunters... I would guess it will decrease opportunity for private land hunting.

In the states I've hunted if you don't have permission you can not access the land. It is really simple to understand and follow. In WY you can't even drive on half the roads without trespassing.

Lots of changes as more and more folks head west to hunt.

 

[three5x5s]

Lets try and not get in to 'regional elitism". This is vast open country with very little public land. I was born and raised in ND and have enjoyed great relationships with landowners. Yes, I usually ask permission whether posted or not but there are countless acres of privately owned grazing or agricultural land where the landowner is a nonresident at least not living in the area, and does not care if you chase some geese in his plowed up field.
We have a heritage here allowing that access and it is simple to post otherwise. I see posting in the west in "no trespass states" also just to remind I guess.
There are things I don't care for in other states but I avoid criticizing those things where I don't have a full understanding or am not impacted by them
No matter how you shake it this is yet another strike against hunting and hunters. Loss of access is #1 in every hunter attrition survey I have ever seen. Our numbers are shrinking and along with that goes G&F funding, Pittman Robertson, the general vote etc.

My Apologies, was not my intent to criticize. You are correct, I have never been to ND and know nothing about how things work there. Here around me I cant think of a farm bigger than 5 Acers that's not deer hunted. and to have hunting access with out permission is foreign.

 

[Oregon]

Guess I’m thinking like a waterfowler not a big game hunter.
I’ve traveled to NoDak numerous times to bird hunt. Stay in hotels, eat in restaurants and buy a bunch of items from stores.
The reason I go to NoDak is two-fold.
Great duck hunting and ease of hunting just about anywhere.
I’ve hunted a lot of private that wasn’t posted or posted with signs that don’t allow you on for deer season only.
My opinion is this: the state will not be as attractive to waterfowlers and some communities may be hit financially if everything starts getting posted.
Maybe not??
Hopefully they make a sign that says leave my deer alone but kill all the ducks and geese.

 

[KJH]

Hopefully they make a sign that says leave my deer alone but kill all the ducks and geese.

This is a great idea. My landowner friends there would be in favor of this.

 

[william schmaltz]

I see both sides but I would like to see it stay the way it is. I grew up rural and all my uncles and most of my buddies farm. Some of them already post their neighbor's property for them so people don't get confused on property boundaries.

As far as access, I have access to tens of thousands of acres so it probably will not affect me in (for now, likely change after a generation or two); but just on the merits of what it could do to hunter recruitment, I do not like. This is a law that would be permanent and I could almost guarantee that it will never be changed back no matter what detrimental effects we may see on hunting.

I haven't been in ND for several years so sorry if this already exists; but is the NDGF or is there a sportsman club that furnishes signs? I know someone mentioned the bowhunters club - could be a worthwhile thing to start. Collaborate with people like DU, pheasants forever, local clubs, etc. It would be cool to see different signs options as mentioned. Even signs with a range of open dates, or "open to water fowl only", "private land, please contact before hunting", etc. Different clubs could pitch in and provide sign packages with markers and even nails. Just a thought. Even if this bill doesn't pass, it could be a good idea to help make amends with land owners who may be salty with the outcome.

 

[tdhanses]

Personally I agree with it, I don’t see what’s so hard about staying off private land especially with today’s technology. I shouldn’t have to post a “Get off my Lawn” sign to keep people off my property. But this is just my personal feelings. Are you ok if I come take your truck for a drive until you put a sticker in the window letting me know I can’t just drive it whenever I feel like it?

 

[NDGuy]

As far as access, I have access to tens of thousands of acres so it probably will not affect me in (for now, likely change after a generation or two); but just on the merits of what it could do to hunter recruitment, I do not like.

You hit the nail on the head, it will affect everyone down the road and hamper new hunter recruitment. This is the stance that will end all of us.

I have heard a scary number of attitudes with these stances of "I got mine so screw everyone else" or "This won't affect me and my family so who cares". We all are responsible for maintaining our resources and making it better for those of us yet to come.

 

[NDGuy]

Are you ok if I come take your truck for a drive until you put a sticker in the window letting me know I can’t just drive it whenever I feel like it?

I can throw right back at them with today's laws, why not take a weekend and post your land with a permanent metal sign?

A hell of a lot easier said than done concerning apps and technology, it's never up to date and 100% accurate. Which leads to conflicts between hunter, landowner, and law enforcement. If they are going to the route of private is private that is fine, but do not make it so difficult and confusing to maintain.

Make it all No hunting without permission. Period. Black and White with no grey area.