New Mexico public draw

[WRO]

Liar!

I’ll humor you, you’ll need to be more specific on what I’m a lieing about..

After that I’m out for a while.

 

[Gila]

and the slimy person pushing this for the past 4 years with hidden agendas sure doesn’t help

And just who is your make believe boogeyman supposed to be?

There was a New Mexico resident who posted about the unfair non-resident preference on “the other hunting forum” that was some years ago. He was “blasted” over there by some non-residents who were obviously e-plus tag brokers and hunt club members. He left in disgust. I tried to get ahold of him but failed. He did appear here on this forum a while ago. He posted once about the subject and left. Can’t say I blame him given all of the trolls and gaslighters like you.

No one ever talks about how resident landowners can be outfitters with no regulation. The entire big game tag system is rigged by outfitters. If you are looking for a real boogeyman, you need to look no further than our own game commission. The chairman of the game commission is the elite hunt club manager for Trout Stalker Ranch. Once the election is over and the selection committee goes to work then maybe Mr. Stump will get his walking papers. At least I hope so.

 

[Gila]

I’ll humor you, you’ll need to be more specific on what I’m a lieing about..

After that I’m out for a while.

You forged Alison Fox’s signature on a fraudulent cash receipt on my behalf. The moderator deleted it. Remember? Don’t let the door hit you in the backside….

 

[Timberline001]

I am not fighting for outfitters.

I am living in the reality that this will do nothing or make things worse for Non Residents

and the slimy person pushing this for the past 4 years with hidden agendas sure doesn’t help

4% more tags makes it worse? Only if you’re an outfitter

 

[Ten Bears]

4% more tags makes it worse? Only if you’re an outfitter

The math has been explained a couple times on here in more detail.

short version for you- those applying in the guide pool will pour into the nr pool increasing the number of nr’s applying. which offsets any gains on made in allotment.

also keep in mind that the number of actual unit wide lo tags is considerably smaller than ro version of these so it’s not like a bounty of tags will be placed in the pool.

nr odds will almost certainly decrease in most units.



also wanted to note something about guides

I don’t use guides but I also think they can add great value to states when the system is working correctly.

new mexico sadly has very limited warden supervision and eyes in the field. pretty much anyone who has spent time in the woods there has story of theft, poaching, trucks driving through roadless areas, etc.

I would be all for having better oversight on the guide industry there from NM Game and Fish to get some eyes on herd health, habitat, and rampant violations.

The one guide issue that really bothers me is the two day rule. Basically guides using there umbrella to allow folks to apply with them to increase odds and get not require bare minimum services. It’s not outfitting by any stretch and should go.

 

[Ten Bears]

And just who is your make believe boogeyman supposed to be?

There was a New Mexico resident who posted about the unfair non-resident preference on “the other hunting forum” that was some years ago. He was “blasted” over there by some non-residents who were obviously e-plus tag brokers and hunt club members. He left in disgust. I tried to get ahold of him but failed. He did appear here on this forum a while ago. He posted once about the subject and left. Can’t say I blame him given all of the trolls and gaslighters like you.

No one ever talks about how resident landowners can be outfitters with no regulation. The entire big game tag system is rigged by outfitters. If you are looking for a real boogeyman, you need to look no further than our own game commission. The chairman of the game commission is the elite hunt club manager for Trout Stalker Ranch. Once the election is over and the selection committee goes to work then maybe Mr. Stump will get his walking papers. At least I hope so.

You using the term gaslighting is pretty funny.

 

[HuntandFly]

4% more tags makes it worse? Only if you’re an outfitter

I don’t think you understand the math here…

4% more tags in the NR pool doesn’t mean more tags for the same number of applicants. It means that almost everyone that put in for the outfitter pool will now join into the NR pool, with the most likely effect being that your odds in the NR pool will be reduced significantly, despite now accounting for 10% of total tags.

 

[WRO]

You forged Alison Fox’s signature on a fraudulent cash receipt on my behalf. The moderator deleted it. Remember? Don’t let the door hit you in the backside….

They were deleted because it was considered bullying, not because they were forged.

Yes I clarified this with the mods who did it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Timberline001]

I don’t think you understand the math here…

4% more tags in the NR pool doesn’t mean more tags for the same number of applicants. It means that almost everyone that put in for the outfitter pool will now join into the NR pool, with the most likely effect being that your odds in the NR pool will be reduced significantly, despite now accounting for 10% of total tags.

I really just wanted to be a part of this I’m not worried about my 2.5% going to 2% if it provides entertainment

 

[CMF]

4% more tags makes it worse? Only if you’re an outfitter

You have to understand that the guide pool of %10 breaks down into %9 nonresident, and %1 resident.

The only way in theory, it could get better by removing the guide pool and going to 90/10 is if the non-resident applicants in the guide pool quit applying altogether. There is zero reason anyone would quit applying if the guide pool went away. You can still hunt with a guide if you drew in either pool.

Go back and look at post 41 if you want to see the numbers breakdown.

 

[Maverick1]

Too bad there’s wasn’t an option to scroll by or ignore a user or users..

Which I should do to honestly..

Thanks for the reality check.

There is an option to ignore a user. Hover over their username, then select "Ignore".

See screenshot below.

 

[Jethro]

I never noticed before @WRO official status is “forum weirdo”.

 

[WRO]

There is an option to ignore a user. Hover over their username, then select "Ignore".

See screenshot below.


View attachment 1060534

Got it figured out..

 

[Gila]

You have to understand that the guide pool of %10 breaks down into %9 nonresident, and %1 resident.

The only way in theory, it could get better by removing the guide pool and going to 90/10 is if the non-resident applicants in the guide pool quit applying altogether. There is zero reason anyone would quit applying if the guide pool went away. You can still hunt with a guide if you drew in either pool.

Go back and look at post 41 if you want to see the numbers breakdown.

In most good units there are very few tags in the public draw to begin with. Your odds are not going to improve much if you apply in the outfitter pool. Most NRs don’t want to be encumbered with a contract before they get the draw results back from other states. However 4% more tags coming just from the outfitter pool in most units, won’t really make much of a difference. Same for residents. The only way to really improve odds in the public draw is to take tags from the private land universe and put them into the public domain. How many tags and when is too far down the road to determine at this point. However the first step is to set up the two allocation buckets to pour those additional tags into.

 

[Gila]

You using the term gaslighting is pretty funny.

i don’t attack people…I attack the issue…You might try it sometime.

 

[WRO]

i don’t attack people…I attack the issue…You might try it sometime.

You literally called me a liar a couple posts above and accused me of forgery.

 

[Gila]

also keep in mind that the number of actual unit wide lo tags is considerably smaller than ro version of these so it’s not like a bounty of tags will be placed in the pool.

That depends where the elk are during early seasons. Quite a few ranches go unit wide if the elk aren’t on the ranches during the early hunting seasons. The larger ranches holding elk will usually go RO. Some units have hundreds of Unit Wide LO tags. In some Greater Gila units, there are just as many UW mature bull tags as there are in the public draw for first rifle or muzzle loader. Most of the UW LO tags hunt public during the early seasons and harvest their bulls on public lands during those seasons. You look at the success rates and they are down because there is twice the hunter pressure on public during those seasons.

nr odds will almost certainly decrease in most units.

NR odds will be higher than they have ever been once the private tags go in. And it’s not just about e-plus. Deer, secondary zone elk, pronghorn tags in the private domain are now sold OTC with no quota. Leftover ranch only tags are now given to a landowner. The commission is discussing putting those leftovers into the public draw.

IMO the private land universe should go completely away and landowners should be paid for public hunting access based on the habitat that they provide similar to Montana’s block management. If landowners don’t want public hunting they could sell hunts to a public draw tag holder. Many agree with me on that it seems, but it will be up to a vote in the state legislature as to how private land tags will be added to the public draw.

I don’t use guides but I also think they can add great value to states when the system is working correctly.

The system that works for everyone is when you draw a tag and choose an Outfitter/Guide if you want to use one.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

If NM residents want to eliminate a guide draw because they no longer support it, that is 100% their prerogative.

However, trying to spin this that it will increase NR draw odds just does not bear out when you look at the numbers.

And honestly why should NM resident hunters care anyway? It seems most every western state level hunters group has adopted a “How can we get as close as financially possible to zero non-resident hunters?” policy.

 

[Ten Bears]

That depends where the elk are during early seasons. Quite a few ranches go unit wide if the elk aren’t on the ranches during the early hunting seasons. The larger ranches holding elk will usually go RO. Some units have hundreds of Unit Wide LO tags. In some Greater Gila units, there are just as many UW mature bull tags as there are in the public draw for first rifle or muzzle loader. Most of the UW LO tags hunt public during the early seasons and harvest their bulls on public lands during those seasons. You look at the success rates and they are down because there is twice the hunter pressure on public during those seasons.


NR odds will be higher than they have ever been once the private tags go in. And it’s not just about e-plus. Deer, secondary zone elk, pronghorn tags in the private domain are now sold OTC with no quota. Leftover ranch only tags are now given to a landowner. The commission is discussing putting those leftovers into the public draw.

IMO the private land universe should go completely away and landowners should be paid for public hunting access based on the habitat that they provide similar to Montana’s block management. If landowners don’t want public hunting they could sell hunts to a public draw tag holder. Many agree with me on that it seems, but it will be up to a vote in the state legislature as to how private land tags will be added to the public draw.

The system that works for everyone is when you draw a tag and choose an Outfitter/Guide if you want to use one.

Literally none of this is remotely correct.

It’s been covered so many times it’s painful for all.

I’ll summarize with the quote from the wise huntandfly- “the most confidentially incorrect person on this forum”

 

[Gila]

However, trying to spin this that it will increase NR draw odds just does not bear out when you look at the numbers.

Tags that are now private land tags will eventually go into the public draw. Right now we are at the stage where the state legislature is trying to figure out their options. The first step is to setup the two allocation buckets to pour those tags into. Any “spinning” is by outfitters, non-residents who don’t want any changes to the system.

The only way to increase odds of drawing for residents and non-residents alike is to add more tags to the public draw. How we do that is currently up for debate in the state legislature….hence this thread.