New Mexico Elk Hunters (Non Residents)

[WRO]

I can see how a land owner would miss out on an opportunity to sell an expensive tag. Question I wrestle with is should that tag be for making cash? Or should it be for controlling populations and decreasing the damage animals can do to that land and the available food there? I prefer a system where that landowner still gets the tags but its for their own use or designee prior to issue. Seems to work fine in other states.

But the tags allocated just for outfitters is another embarrassing govt giveaway. They shouldn't get some welfare govt subsidy to help prop up their industry by the govt funneling business their direction. If those handful of outfitters cant make it without the govt forcing business their way then they should look for other business opportunities. So yeah F those outfitter businesses if they cant survive in a free market like they do in every other state.

Most states in the west had lo tags for sale that vary from unit wide to PLO, those funds should be meant to offset damage etc and provide value to the critters. I have an issue with ranchers continually lobbying to keep elk numbers low, murdering them on damage tags, they selling big money bull tags while crying about damage, but with no monetary value they’d kill them all.

The outfitter welfare isn’t my favorite but it was put into place to keep outfitters in business when tags got scarace, and the states started allocating to keep them in business. That being said it’s severely abused now. Nm, or, and nv all have outfitter allocated or guaranteed tags that I know of.

States with near impossible to draw preference point tags have huge guiding industries.

 

[Gila]

Brother....folks in NM or any other state will never pay to get access to land to steal stuff. That statement alone literally makes everything you've posted, thought about posting or deleted from posting a total crock. Thieves are thieves and they won't spend money to steal stuff. You realize that any Tom Dick or Harry with a truck, car, motorcycle, side by side cand drive anywhere that a person with an elk tag can....don't you.???? Have you not seen multiple threads about folks stealing stuff out of trucks in basically any unit in NM. If you think those thieves paid to drive up and down forest roads your my friend are an idiot.

I live here so not really gonna slam someone for not knowing what they are talking about.

The way it works is that: Joe shmuck buys an authorization from a land owner. Joe goes on the hunt and gets his bull or buck. Joe schmuck goes to the bar and tells his bar friends about the gold mine he found on Jake Farmers property. Joe Schmuck knows when Jake ain’t gonna be around. Joe’s bar friends decide to take a couple of trailers down to Jake’s property when he isn’t home. They clean poor Jake out. Lucky Joe Hunter schmuck gets a grand or two for the case. Sounds crazy to me too, but it happens…thankfully does’t happen very often.

There was a huge poaching ring busted in GMU 34 a few years back. Poached the private ranches as well as BLM. That made all of the papers.

 

[bullet225ho]

I live here so not really gonna slam someone for not knowing what they are talking about.

The way it works is that: Joe shmuck buys an authorization from a land owner. Joe goes on the hunt and gets his bull or buck. Joe schmuck goes to the bar and tells his bar friends about the gold mine he found on Jake Farmers property. Joe Schmuck knows when Jake ain’t gonna be around. Joe’s bar friends decide to take a couple of trailers down to Jake’s property when he isn’t home. They clean poor Jake out. Lucky Joe Hunter schmuck gets a grand or two for the case. Sounds crazy to me too, but it happens…thankfully does’t happen very often.

There was a huge poaching ring busted in GMU 34 a few years back. Poached the private ranches as well as BLM. That made all of the papers.

Sounds like a resident bar friend problem...not NR LO voucher problem

 

[Jethro]

I live here so not really gonna slam someone for not knowing what they are talking about.

The way it works is that: Joe shmuck buys an authorization from a land owner. Joe goes on the hunt and gets his bull or buck. Joe schmuck goes to the bar and tells his bar friends about the gold mine he found on Jake Farmers property. Joe Schmuck knows when Jake ain’t gonna be around. Joe’s bar friends decide to take a couple of trailers down to Jake’s property when he isn’t home. They clean poor Jake out. Lucky Joe Hunter schmuck gets a grand or two for the case. Sounds crazy to me too, but it happens…thankfully does’t happen very often.

There was a huge poaching ring busted in GMU 34 a few years back. Poached the private ranches as well as BLM. That made all of the papers.

Burglary and poaching happen all over. Your correlation between the crime and eplus LO tags is ridiculous

 

[Gila]

It becomes a lot easier to come up with viable public access programs if one thinks about the core principles of the North American Conservation Model one of which: Private Lands - Public Wildlife. Elk don’t understand boundaries. NM SB5 mandates a new game commission and revamped the selection process for a commission appointment. There won’t be hunting outfitters on the commission. The reason why is because the wildlife decisions outfitters support are all about raising their bottom line, their business plan. Outfitter wildlife management decisions would have nothing to do with science which is inline with anti-hunters.

The reason why I deleted posts on the CPW thread is because OP wasn’t willing to entertain the argument that having a hunting outfitter on the commission actually could reduce hunting opportunity. But Colorado state legislature mandates having an outfitter on the commission. Once a person jumps down into the rabbit hole, it becomes quite clear why anti-hunters would want that. New Mexico’s wildlife management has been an abomination for quite a few years now. The anti-hunters in NM have been quite happy with the privatization of our hunting.

The reduced hunting opportunity on public as well as private lands widdles away at our hunting over time. The taxes paid by outfitters and tag brokers does not all go back to wildlife management. Quite a bit of outfitter taxes pay a landowner for conservation easements that are forever and do not allow hunting, fishing and trapping. Some Western states have recognized that paying the landowner for public hunting access and doing away with landowner tags advances elk management and enhances critical habitat on private lands.

 

[KurtR]

 

[WRO]

It becomes a lot easier to come up with viable public access programs if one thinks about the core principles of the North American Conservation Model one of which: Private Lands - Public Wildlife. Elk don’t understand boundaries. NM SB5 mandates a new game commission and revamped the selection process for a commission appointment. There won’t be hunting outfitters on the commission. The reason why is because the wildlife decisions outfitters support are all about raising their bottom line, their business plan. Outfitter wildlife management decisions would have nothing to do with science which is inline with anti-hunters.

The reason why I deleted posts on the CPW thread is because OP wasn’t willing to entertain the argument that having a hunting outfitter on the commission actually could reduce hunting opportunity. But Colorado state legislature mandates having an outfitter on the commission. Once a person jumps down into the rabbit hole, it becomes quite clear why anti-hunters would want that. New Mexico’s wildlife management has been an abomination for quite a few years now. The anti-hunters in NM have been quite happy with the privatization of our hunting.

The reduced hunting opportunity on public as well as private lands widdles away at our hunting over time. The taxes paid by outfitters and tag brokers does not all go back to wildlife management. Quite a bit of outfitter taxes pay a landowner for conservation easements that are forever and do not allow hunting, fishing and trapping. Some Western states have recognized that paying the landowner for public hunting access and doing anyway with landowner tags advances elk management and enhances critical habitat on private lands.

Jfc, Outfitters are anti hunting now? More game on the landscape, predators control, habitat protection are all things every outfitter wants that I know.

 

[bevance]

I'd love to hear some more first hand accounts of people who actually went through the process of buying Eplus tags, calling landowners and such and the success you've had getting the tag. I became curious about these tags after getting continual reds across the board for elk draws in NM.

The overall Rokslide/Forum sentiment for landowner tags in NM seem to agree with the OP on that front. Any forum posts I've read online about trying to buy a landowner tag in NM make it seem that you have extremely slim chances of finding someone who will sell you one. But then again you can find websites online that have them listed for sale. I'd like to think it is somewhere in the middle as most have posted. Probably have a long waiting list of outfitters wanting to buy a Gila LO tag, but I like to think some of the "lesser units" might have some tags a guy could get on the phone and buy from a landowner.

I tend to think that most things discussed on Hunting Forums, especially this one, make it seem like the sky is falling. If you strictly went off forums and how they view the hunting world, you would sell all your hunting gear and sit on your bathroom floor in the fetal position sucking your thumb thinking about the "good ole days".

I tend to be a bit more optimistic for whatever reason, and that most things in the hunting world are closer to the middle than towards the extreme bad end of the spectrum.

But again, long winded response that is kind of off topic. But I would love to hear exactly how your experience went if you bought an Eplus/Landowner tag.

 

[WRO]

I'd love to hear some more first hand accounts of people who actually went through the process of buying Eplus tags, calling landowners and such and the success you've had getting the tag. I became curious about these tags after getting continual reds across the board for elk draws in NM.

The overall Rokslide/Forum sentiment for landowner tags in NM seem to agree with the OP on that front. Any forum posts I've read online about trying to buy a landowner tag in NM make it seem that you have extremely slim chances of finding someone who will sell you one. But then again you can find websites online that have them listed for sale. I'd like to think it is somewhere in the middle as most have posted. Probably have a long waiting list of outfitters wanting to buy a Gila LO tag, but I like to think some of the "lesser units" might have some tags a guy could get on the phone and buy from a landowner.

I tend to think that most things discussed on Hunting Forums, especially this one, make it seem like the sky is falling. If you strictly went off forums and how they view the hunting world, you would sell all your hunting gear and sit on your bathroom floor in the fetal position sucking your thumb thinking about the "good ole days".

I tend to be a bit more optimistic for whatever reason, and that most things in the hunting world are closer to the middle than towards the extreme bad end of the spectrum.

But again, long winded response that is kind of off topic. But I would love to hear exactly how your experience went if you bought an Eplus/Landowner tag.

I’ve bought multiple, both LO direct and from brokers, it’s pretty easy to do. There is a steady availability for units 10/12/13/15/17/50-52, 9 etc. Great units you’ll pay through the nose for, the northern units out of the Gila are pretty inexpensive relatively.

 

[Gila]

I would like to hear from others too, especially residents. Because of e-plus, residents are seldom successful drawing a mature bull tag. A resident could go years and years without a public draw tag. There are some late season cow hunts that have decent draw odds but most of those tags are given to the youth hunts. The public draw is a split random draw. 84% for residents, 10% for non-residents that are on contract with an outfitter, and 6% for DIY non-residents. However, under the sheets what is going on is that approx 40% of the total tags for a GMU are land owner tags. If a GMU has 1000 total tags, then about 400 of those tags are subtracted from the public draw for landowner tags. Subtract 10% of those 600 remaining tags that go into the outfitters pool. So it is 84% of 540 tags go to residents and 6% of 540 tags go to DIY non-residents. The success rates would be based on 540 tags.

Only the GMUs in the Primary elk management Zone have Unit Wide Landowner tags. Unit Wide means that the tag holder can hunt any public lands as well as any other e-plus participating private land in the GMU. Those properties that do not quality for Unit Wide tags are considered ranch only tags. How many mature bulls are harvested on public lands by Unit Wide LO tag holders is unknown because the DGF does not ask the question on the harvest report. But I do know that the unit wide LO mature bull tags can be used on the first rifle or first muzzleloader seasons which are typically during the rut. So the magical question is: How many mature bulls are left to complete the rut? A question that no one seems to be able to answer. Some GMUS have over a hundred plus UW LO mature bull tags.

The unit wide ranches either have their own outfitters or contract out to an outfitter. The only UW LO tag I have been lucky enough to buy was sold to me by an outfitter who owned the ranch. He had a cancellation in August. The e-plus ranch list comes out in July. If the outfitter can’t book all of the tags, he will sell them to another outfitter first. The tags in the best GMUs are always bought up by another outfitter. Very few of the premier tags get to Craigslist or a Web tag broker if any. If you can find any of those tags, they go for about 10-20K plus in the Gila and the Lincoln. In the northern units the tags go for 6-10k plus. You can get the eplus LO list and call the landowner with the unit wide tags. They won’t answer. Most don’t have voice mail either. If you do leave voice mail, they won’t call you back. You could get lucky if the ranch owner is an outfitter and he has a last minute cancellation. I mean even a blind squirrel finds an acorn or two,,,,,,,,

 

[WRO]

The unit wide ranches either have their own outfitters or contract out to an outfitter. The only UW LO tag I have been lucky enough to buy was sold to me by an outfitter who owned the ranch. He had a cancellation in August. The e-plus ranch list comes out in July. If the outfitter can’t book all of the tags, he will sell them to another outfitter first. The tags in the best GMUs are always bought up by another outfitter. Very few of the premier tags get to Craigslist or a Web tag broker if any. If you can find any of those tags, they go for about 10-20K plus in the Gila and the Lincoln. In the northern units the tags go for 6-10k plus. You can get the eplus LO list and call the landowner with the unit wide tags. They won’t answer. Most don’t have voice mail either. If you do leave voice mail, they won’t call you back. You could get lucky if the ranch owner is an outfitter and he has a last minute cancellation. I mean even a blind squirrel finds an acorn or two,,,,,,,,

You don’t know how use a computer then I’m guessing, I’ve literally seen nearly every unit in nm and every season vouchers unguided this season for sale. I saw 3 different ones on fb today, 2 10 rifles and a 50 archery.

Hunters domain had a pile, there’s some on monster muleys, hf has some, sw big game brokerage had a bunch listed.

The 50s tags are going for between 2-4k, gila tags range from 5-20k, 34/36 are expensive because the Texans buy them.

They’re getting a bit more scarace as the season goes on but there’s always short notice deals every year.

Taking away all the eplus tags isn’t going to magically make you draw a bull tag every year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gila]

I received an email from NRA a few days ago. The President recently signed an EO that promotes hunting opportunity. Those tags belong in the public draw. If a landowner wants to sell access to their land it is their own business (Infinite Outdoors). The Wildlife Federation is a highly regarded and well respected organization on the right side of the aisle.

Attention New Mexico Hunters: Speak Up Now to Demand Reform of EPLUS! - New Mexico Wildlife Federation

The New Mexico Department of Game and Fish just announced the draw results for the 2022-23 elk season. As usual, far too many resident hunters got the bad news that... Read more »

nmwildlife.org

 

[WRO]

I received an email from NRA a few days ago. The President recently signed an EO that promotes hunting opportunity. Those tags belong in the public draw. If a landowner wants to sell access to their land it is their own business (Infinite Outdoors). The Wildlife Federation is a highly regarded and well respected organization on the right side of the aisle.

Attention New Mexico Hunters: Speak Up Now to Demand Reform of EPLUS! - New Mexico Wildlife Federation

The New Mexico Department of Game and Fish just announced the draw results for the 2022-23 elk season. As usual, far too many resident hunters got the bad news that... Read more »

nmwildlife.org

Nice Shameless business development plug.

 

[Gila]

There are two or three that seem to do well. Here is another:

Book access to private land • Landtrust

Book access to private land • Landtrust | Find and book private land to fish, hunt, bird-watch, and more. Landtrust is used by thousands of outdoor enthusiasts to find access to the best private land across the United States.

landtrust.com

I prefer paying the landowner per acre with a public hunting access agreement. However the criteria of providing critical habitat would need to be negotiable because of elk migration. This concept would work well in New Mexico for Pronghorn and Deer as well. There is about 600K acres allocated E-Plus Unit Wide tags. All of those tags belong in the public draw. Those tags are unconstitutional, even US senators don’t like unit wide tags. The DGF has not been sued by the hunting conservation groups because it is hunter’s excise taxes that primarily fund wildlife management in the first place.

Small properties that currently have Ranch Only tags would also have those tags poured into the public draw as well. Not sure what the suggestions are to compensate them. But any ranch should have the option to sell access to their property for hunting, fishing and trapping.

So riddle me this Batman…What contributions do outfitters make to wildlife management and the economy?

 

[bayoublaster7527]

It becomes a lot easier to come up with viable public access programs if one thinks about the core principles of the North American Conservation Model one of which: Private Lands - Public Wildlife. Elk don’t understand boundaries. NM SB5 mandates a new game commission and revamped the selection process for a commission appointment. There won’t be hunting outfitters on the commission. The reason why is because the wildlife decisions outfitters support are all about raising their bottom line, their business plan. Outfitter wildlife management decisions would have nothing to do with science which is inline with anti-hunters.

The reason why I deleted posts on the CPW thread is because OP wasn’t willing to entertain the argument that having a hunting outfitter on the commission actually could reduce hunting opportunity. But Colorado state legislature mandates having an outfitter on the commission. Once a person jumps down into the rabbit hole, it becomes quite clear why anti-hunters would want that. New Mexico’s wildlife management has been an abomination for quite a few years now. The anti-hunters in NM have been quite happy with the privatization of our hunting.

The reduced hunting opportunity on public as well as private lands widdles away at our hunting over time. The taxes paid by outfitters and tag brokers does not all go back to wildlife management. Quite a bit of outfitter taxes pay a landowner for conservation easements that are forever and do not allow hunting, fishing and trapping. Some Western states have recognized that paying the landowner for public hunting access and doing away with landowner tags advances elk management and enhances critical habitat on private lands.

I think you are really missing the dangers of SB5. It has nothing to do with outfitters. Hunters/Anglers have one seat in the commission, that’s it. The other seats could easily be filled with anti-hunters, especially in a blue state like NM. Wildlife For All (the most notable and powerful national anti-hunting group in America) is located in New Mexico and will likely soon have great influence on the other 4 seats on the commission. New Mexico Wildlife Federation partnered with Wildlife For All to make all this happen. Once WFA has exerted influence over a majority voting bloc on the commission they will press to eliminate hunting of mountain lions and black bears. Many other species to follow. You can thank the folks at NMWF.

 

[dtrkyman]

I found out about a landowner tag through a friend, bought it one year and told the guy I would buy it every year, price was great and I was a non res. at the time.

He claimed they changed his tag allocation yearly and he was never sure how many tags he would get, he even offered his hand made log cabin to use but I hunted a couple hrs from there most of my hunt, showed me around the area and places elk had been killed in the past.

Called him every year since then and have never gotten a call back, no clue what happened, he had a section out in the middle of nowhere with a handful of elk using it, probably would have more in a harsh winter late season?

His property was not enrolled in e plus according to Onx.

 

[wapitibob]

The Wildlife Federation is a highly regarded and well respected organization on the right side of the aisle.

That's the funniest (dumbest?) thing I've seen you write yet.

 

[wapitibob]

Nice Shameless business development plug.

Two year old news; NMWF can't get traction with their E-Plus rants and likely won't for a long time. They have nobody in the legislature so social media is their only avenue. Politicians aren't going to lay the pipe to resident LO's and the Outfitter industry.

 

[Gila]

E-Plus is up for evaluation next year. There are a lot of conservation groups in this fight. Everyone is getting together to come up with the battle plan for next year. This is the first time in many years that New Mexico will have a Commission that may actually be able to get the job done. There will be another governor next year as well.

 

[dtrkyman]

I would be all for landowner tags going to ranch only, I doubt it happens but if the tags that were no longer offered as unit wide went into the public draw that would be nice!