New Mexico Elk Hunters (Non Residents)

[wapitibob]

For those of you unfamiliar with the E-Plus program, anyone constantly telling you that all the LO vouchers are bought by outfitters, doesn't know enough about the program to be giving you any advise.

 

[realunlucky]

apparently every person that disagrees with this mysterious altruistic savior of hunting in New Mexico is a guide, troll, or wrong.

When you post on every single thread he starts there is an underlying problem.

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[Ten Bears]

When you post on every single thread he starts there is an underlying problem.

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What are your thoughts on what he posts ?

Are all the posters saying the same thing as myself wrong also ?

Is it also an underlying problem for someone to post the same thread repeatedly or derail countless threads ?

Would love some clarity.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Riiiiggghhht! It is possible to get one of those tags like I said, but very unlikely for a resident. The e-plus landowner list should be out any day now. It is about 300 pages long for all of the GMUs. There is a slightly better chance to buy a LO authorization in a shitty unit but an outfitter has to be willing to part with one in the first place. Those are really non-resident tags, let’s be honest with one another.

Most experienced elk hunters want to scout their own elk, do their own calling, and make their own camp. The 10% of the non-resident outfitter tags sometimes have twice the odds as a resident for the same GMU and the same hunt. That’s because most non-residents don’t want to use an outfitter. Outfitters were having such as hard time booking those hunts tht they knocked the contracts back to a 2 day requirement. There are so few resident tags in the public draw that the odds seldom go above 12%. Even in a decent WMA for residents only, the odds are less than 10%. Residents are forced to hunt other states because it takes many years sometimes to draw a mature bull tag period.

Again you discount everything and anything that goes against your propaganda. Even your poll choices expresses just that. Your rebuttals to residents who buy vouchers goes against that. You dismiss everything any one gives as actual facts to your point.

It’s becoming a joke at this point. Only Gila opinion is relevant, the hell with actual facts.

 

[WRO]

Riiiiggghhht! It is possible to get one of those tags like I said, but very unlikely for a resident. The e-plus landowner list should be out any day now. It is about 300 pages long for all of the GMUs. There is a slightly better chance to buy a LO authorization in a shitty unit but an outfitter has to be willing to part with one in the first place. Those are really non-resident tags, let’s be honest with one another.

Most experienced elk hunters want to scout their own elk, do their own calling, and make their own camp. The 10% of the non-resident outfitter tags sometimes have twice the odds as a resident for the same GMU and the same hunt. That’s because most non-residents don’t want to use an outfitter. Outfitters were having such as hard time booking those hunts tht they knocked the contracts back to a 2 day requirement. There are so few resident tags in the public draw that the odds seldom go above 12%. Even in a decent WMA for residents only, the odds are less than 10%. Residents are forced to hunt other states because it takes many years sometimes to draw a mature bull tag period.

Plenty of residents buy uw tags, if a guy like me from Idaho can grab a tag at will, a resident should be just as able to.

Good outfitters are booked, even the one I do 2 days with has the majority of their hunts booked 5 days.

I still scout and find my own bulls and it’s always been one of my hunting partners that call it in.

What’s your answer to the financial implications laid out?

 

[realunlucky]

What are your thoughts on what he posts ?

Are all the posters saying the same thing as myself wrong also ?

Is it also an underlying problem for someone to post the same thread repeatedly or derail countless threads ?

Would love some clarity.

Options-
1-click the report button. Make your case that it's not appropriate thread or post and it'll be managed on the back end.
2- engage in the topic at hand using relevant information to make logical points and counter points.
3- decide the OP is an idiot click ignore and move along to another thread

 

[roadrunner]

the irony of your comment is what is hilarious.

Since you’re making it about you anyway...

Simply commenting on behavior is a far cry different than taking it upon yourself to monitor what people say when comments make you rear your head back and pull a face like you ate something sour and then proceed to set them straight by "calling them out".

My hell...

 

[Gila]

What’s your answer to the financial implications laid out?

There are various ways to get funding…the financial solution whatever it turns out to be, will need to be attractive to the LO if they are giving up land owner tags for public hunting access. Raising the tag fees is only one way. We will need to think out of the box to generate the funding. South Dakota just raises license fees but they sell quite a few non-resident licenses for upland game and waterfowl.

 

[Ten Bears]

Since you’re making it about you anyway...

Simply commenting on behavior is a far cry different than taking it upon yourself to monitor what people say when comments make you rear your head back and pull a face like you ate something sour and then proceed to set them straight by "calling them out".

My hell...

This has went on for a longtime. My current frustration and others is obviously manifesting in this thread.

If you want to catch up simply go back and read the other 30 plus threads the original poster has started or turned into this topic. Some have been deleted by him but many remain.

 

[WRO]

There are various ways to get funding…the financial solution whatever it turns out to be, will need to be attractive to the LO if they are giving up land owner tags for public hunting access. Raising the tag fees is only one way. We will need to think out of the box to generate the funding. South Dakota just raises license fees but they sell quite a few non-resident licenses for upland game and waterfowl.

Give me an example, 5000.00 nr tags is what my mind goes to.

Also have you ever actually tried to buy a voucher?

 

[roadrunner]

This has went on for a longtime. My current frustration and others is obviously manifesting in this thread.

If you want to catch up simply go back and read the other 30 plus threads the original poster has started or turned into this topic. Some have been deleted by him but many remain.

Anger is an emotional punishment you place on yourself because of someone's actions.

Applies to frustration as well...

 

[Gila]

Give me an example, 5000.00 nr tags is what my mind goes to.

Also have you ever actually tried to buy a voucher?

Yes…I purchased a Unit Wide authorization several years ago. During the hunt I discovered some “fundamental flaws” with the E-plus system as related to elk herd and habitat management that is a topic for another day in another thread. I am trying to get some scientific data related to these issues.

I am in the process of trying to get a spread sheet together that I can query. Some GMUs have hundreds of e-plus tags. Also some GMUs vary by quite a bit in the number of authorizations that are allocated year-to-year. Last month a biologist was actually appointed to the Commission. He seems to have good general skills. For the first time the Commission will be able to get through the “scientific swamp” they have had to wade through.

 

[WRO]

Yes…I purchased a Unit Wide authorization several years ago. During the hunt I discovered some “fundamental flaws” with the E-plus system as related to elk herd and habitat management that is a topic for another day in another thread. I am trying to get some scientific data related to these issues.

I am in the process of trying to get a spread sheet together that I can query. Some GMUs have hundreds of e-plus tags. Also some GMUs vary by quite a bit in the number of authorizations that are allocated year-to-year. Last month a biologist was actually appointed to the Commission. He seems to have good general skills. For the first time the Commission will be able to get through the “scientific swamp” they have had to wade through.

Once again any ideas how to pay for it?

I assume you must’ve been a non resident when you purchased it because they don’t sell them to residents right?


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[Gila]

Once again any ideas how to pay for it?

I assume you must’ve been a non resident when you purchased it because they don’t sell them to residents right?


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Last year the dept sold something like 450,000 fee “items” such as licenses, tags, stamps, permits etc.
Raise the price of each item. Could even sell an e-plus stamp or similar. Raise the annual outfitters license to $750. Have outfitters collect a $250 “e-plus” fee from each client. There are federal excise taxes available to State Depts for land lease. Also, South Dakota has found a way to “tap” into CRP (Conservation Reserve Program) funds for landowners but I don’t know how that works.

If the split in the public draw goes 90% residents and 10% non-res like in Wyoming, could sell preference points. The numbers are just arbitrary for example purposes only. I am not a financial person. I’m sure there are many different ways to raise the cash to pay landowners. The Land Conservancy is recruiting private land for conservation easements. Those easements don’t currently include hunting and fishing, however that funding is obviously part of the political climate.

Just some food for thought for what it’s worth.

 

[WRO]

Last year the dept sold something like 450,000 fee “items” such as licenses, tags, stamps, permits etc.
Raise the price of each item. Could even sell an e-plus stamp or similar. Raise the annual outfitters license to $750. Have outfitters collect a $250 “e-plus” fee from each client. There are federal excise taxes available to State Depts for land lease. Also, South Dakota has found a way to “tap” into CRP (Conservation Reserve Program) funds for landowners but I don’t know how that works.

If the split in the public draw goes 90% residents and 10% non-res like in Wyoming, could sell preference points. The numbers are just arbitrary for example purposes only. I am not a financial person. I’m sure there are many different ways to raise the cash to pay landowners. The Land Conservancy is recruiting private land for conservation easements. Those easements don’t currently include hunting and fishing, however that funding is obviously part of the political climate.

Just some food for thought for what it’s worth.

How do you pay the state back? 2.00 per item wouldn’t cover the lost elk nr tag revenue, once you factor in deer and Antelope nr revenue it’d be 5-10.00 an item just for lost nr revenue not accounting for land owner compensation.


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[Gila]

Once again any ideas how to pay for it?

I assume you must’ve been a non resident when you purchased it because they don’t sell them to residents right?


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I was a resident then. An Outfitter sold the authorization to me when he had a last minute cancellation in September. It was not an outfitted hunt just the tag authorization. I never said it was impossible for a resident to get ahold of one of those tags but nearly so…

 

[yfarm]

Spoke with a landowner regarding the suggested $5/acre payment for access. He said to replace revenue lost from his lo tags would need to be $50. He also added no way in hell would he allow people he didnt know on his property.

 

[Gila]

How do you pay the state back? 2.00 per item wouldn’t cover the lost elk nr tag revenue, once you factor in deer and Antelope nr revenue it’d be 5-10.00 an item just for lost nr revenue not accounting for land owner compensation.


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Where do you come up with lost revenue? The state wouldn’t be losing anything. Income, sales taxes from outfitters could be less because they would no longer book those authorizations for hunts or sell e-plus authorizations to the highest bidder. The private land authorizations would convert to tags allocated to the public draw. The only difference is that those who draw the tags have a choice to use an outfitter or not. The outfitters could continue to hunt the private lands, they just would no longer be tag brokers or lease holders. Outfitter income, sales taxes don’t all go back to the DOW. Those taxes go to other programs like the New Mexico Land Conservancy that pays landowners for conservation easements that don’t allow hunting, fishing, trapping.

 

[bullet225ho]

I've been purchasing LO vouchers for years and not a single land owner has asked me where I'm from. They have a price they want....Or they've already sold it....Some want cashiers checks, money orders and some are fine with paypal, venmo etc..

 

[Gila]

Spoke with a landowner regarding the suggested $5/acre payment for access. He said to replace revenue lost from his lo tags would need to be $50. He also added no way in hell would he allow people he didnt know on his property.

We are talking about e-plus properties in the primary elk management zones that already allow public hunting that would probably be interested in the program. For those properties that currently sell authorizations and don’t want into the access program, they could book their property with Infinite Outdoors. All of their booked hunts are carefully vetted and approved by the landowner. The only difference is that the outfitter is not the middle man. Infinite Outdoors will let their clients use outfitters and those outfitters are subject to the same vetting process. Infinite outdoors also contacts the state conservation officers as part of the vetting process.

The Unite Wide, MATURE BULL e-plus authorizations are like gold. Say a landowner is allocated 10 unit wide, mature bull authorizations. He currently sells them to an outfitter for 10k apiece so he makes 100K. Now if he wants into the program and say he has 20K acres of some critical habitat with plenty of resident elk on his property; the state could pay him $5 an acre for public access. His income is still 100K. But it is steady income from year to year. He doesn’t have to worry about how many authorizations the state will give him from year to year.

Now say his property is ranch only and the outfitters were only paying 5K for each of 10 authorizations, he could actually increase his hunting income if he entered the program. However if the same landowner for whatever reason doesn’t go with the access program, he could book with a service like Infinite Outdoors. Say the landowner gets 5K per hunter for a mature bull hunt, he only needs to book 11 hunts per season to exceed the income he had with e-plus.