New Mexico Elk Hunters (Non Residents)

[WRO]

Where do you come up with lost revenue? The state wouldn’t be losing anything. Income, sales taxes from outfitters could be less because they would no longer book those authorizations for hunts or sell e-plus authorizations to the highest bidder. The private land authorizations would convert to tags allocated to the public draw. The only difference is that those who draw the tags have a choice to use an outfitter or not. The outfitters could continue to hunt the private lands, they just would no longer be tag brokers or lease holders. Outfitter income, sales taxes don’t all go back to the DOW. Those taxes go to other programs like the New Mexico Land Conservancy that pays landowners for conservation easements that don’t allow hunting, fishing, trapping.

Simple math, as stated most of the e plus tags go to nrs and not subject to the quota in the draw. Nrs pay 10x resident cost so that delta in lost revenue will significantly hurt the states budget.

Income and sales taxes Not could, would actually be less not to mention lost use taxes.

Are you intentionally misleading or just not thinking through all the pieces?

 

[WRO]

We are talking about e-plus properties in the primary elk management zones that already allow public hunting that would probably be interested in the program. For those properties that currently sell authorizations and don’t want into the access program, they could book their property with Infinite Outdoors. All of their booked hunts are carefully vetted and approved by the landowner. The only difference is that the outfitter is not the middle man. Infinite Outdoors will let their clients use outfitters and those outfitters are subject to the same vetting process. Infinite outdoors also contacts the state conservation officers as part of the vetting process.

The Unite Wide, MATURE BULL e-plus authorizations are like gold. Say a landowner is allocated 10 unit wide, mature bull authorizations. He currently sells them to an outfitter for 10k apiece so he makes 100K. Now if he wants into the program and say he has 20K acres of some critical habitat with plenty of resident elk on his property; the state could pay him $5 an acre for public access. His income is still 100K. But it is steady income from year to year. He doesn’t have to worry about how many authorizations the state will give him from year to year.

Now say his property is ranch only and the outfitters were only paying 5K for each of 10 authorizations, he could actually increase his hunting income if he entered the program. However if the same landowner for whatever reason doesn’t go with the access program, he could book with a service like Infinite Outdoors. Say the landowner gets 5K per hunter for a mature bull hunt, he only needs to book 11 hunts per season to exceed the income he had with e-plus.

This business development guy is on fire.

At 3500 total tags in the draw, assuming your dream came to reality, at 100.00 per tag to offset the cost, this ranch would cost 1/3 of the revenue your proposal would bring in.


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[Gila]

I've been purchasing LO vouchers for years and not a single land owner has asked me where I'm from. They have a price they want....Or they've already sold it....Some want cashiers checks, money orders and some are fine with paypal, venmo etc..

It is getting very rare that you can buy any land owner authorizations in New Mexico from the actual land owner. Those authorizations are almost always brokered by outfitters now. The land owners that bypass the outfitter to make more money are getting burned and scammed by residents and non-residents alike. The thieves target them by buying an authorization and then poach what they can shoot and/or steal anything that isn’t nailed down. Tractors, trailers you name it. They will load up a trailer in the middle of the night with horses and cows and be gone.

 

[Gila]

This business development guy is on fire.

At 3500 total tags in the draw, assuming your dream came to reality, at 100.00 per tag to offset the cost, this ranch would cost 1/3 of the revenue your proposal would bring in.


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I am not a business development guy for anyone…your math skills stink. It is not my proposal. i am just making suggestions and trying to map out alternatives to the current e-plus system that isn’t working out so well for the hunter, the landowner or the elk. The outfitters like the e-plus system because they can sell the hunts to the high rollers who are the highest bidders. High rollers subject to a random draw? Banish the thought! LOL!

 

[KurtR]

There are various ways to get funding…the financial solution whatever it turns out to be, will need to be attractive to the LO if they are giving up land owner tags for public hunting access. Raising the tag fees is only one way. We will need to think out of the box to generate the funding. South Dakota just raises license fees but they sell quite a few non-resident licenses for upland game and waterfowl.
nr waterfowl are at a very limited number at 145 per license and the pheasant license is also 142. Which is where a fair amount of money is being made. Dont know much about waterfowl or upland in new mexico but on my list of places to shoot birds it does not even make the top 20 so i find it hard to believe the lost revenue will be replaced with either of those license sales.

South Dakota NR waterfowl are at a very limited number at 145 per license and the pheasant license is also 142. Which is where a fair amount of money is being made. Dont know much about waterfowl or upland in new mexico but on my list of places to shoot birds it does not even make the top 20 so i find it hard to believe the lost revenue will be replaced with either of those license sales of nr elk tags.

 

[WRO]

I am not a business development guy for anyone…your math skills stink. It is not my proposal. i am just making suggestions and trying to map out alternatives to the current e-plus system that isn’t working out so well for the hunter, the landowner or the elk. The outfitters like the e-plus system because they can sell the hunts to the high rollers who are the highest bidders. High rollers subject to a random draw? Banish the thought! LOL!

Show your work then comrade, my math is easily quantified.

100.00 per nr tag, approximately 3500 total nr elk tags for nrs maybe 350k.


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[wapitibob]

........ The thieves target them by buying an authorization and then poach what they can shoot and/or steal anything that isn’t nailed down. Tractors, trailers you name it. They will load up a trailer in the middle of the night with horses and cows and be gone.

You're on a roll.

 

[Gila]

I will say it one last time. i am not affiliated in any way with Infinite Outdoors. I found out about them from Ryan Avery…the co-founder of Rokslide about 3 months ago in his video podcast which I posted a link to. All of the information I have posted here came from that podcast. If I made any inaccurate statements I apologize to Rokslide and Infinite Outdoors. Once again go to YouTube and watch Ryan’s video…I won’t be posting anything more about Infinite Outdoors or Ryan’s podcast.

 

[WRO]

It is getting very rare that you can buy any land owner authorizations in New Mexico from the actual land owner. Those authorizations are almost always brokered by outfitters now. The land owners that bypass the outfitter to make more money are getting burned and scammed by residents and non-residents alike. The thieves target them by buying an authorization and then poach what they can shoot and/or steal anything that isn’t nailed down. Tractors, trailers you name it. They will load up a trailer in the middle of the night with horses and cows and be gone.

I’ll take things that didn’t happen for 5000 Alex. Also I’m confused, I thought you said residents couldn’t buy vouchers, now they can as a front to steal?


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[Gila]

Show your work then comrade, my math is easily quantified.

100.00 per nr tag, approximately 3500 total nr elk tags for nrs maybe 350k.


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You are assuming that only the non-resident elk license fee could be raised…totally inaccurate assumption on your part.

 

[Gila]

I’ll take things that didn’t happen for 5000 Alex. Also I’m confused, I thought you said residents couldn’t buy vouchers, now they can as a front to steal?


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If you are going to put words in my mouth and make wild assumptions then our conversation is at an end!

 

[Gila]

You're on a roll.

Where do you live? City folk don’t know how it is down here.

I am a landowner. Unfortunately the gangs don’t just stay in Albuquerque. I asked my hay vendor the other day if he had a deer hunt planned. He told me that land owner where he hunted got poached and robbed last year so he won’t let anyone on his property right now. The cattle are branded and the horses are chipped for a reason.

 

[WRO]

You are assuming that only the non-resident elk license fee could be raised…totally inaccurate assumption on your part.

Every states residents scream and whine every time license fees are increased, how do you think a 100.00 per tag fee increase for residents would fly?

 

[WRO]

If you are going to put words in my mouth and make wild assumptions then our conversation is at an end!

You’ve said multiple times that residents can’t even buy vouchers it is near impossible.

Secondly any actual cases you can cite if lo tags bring purchased as a front to rob farmers? There’s no lack of shitheads in nm, I just can’t think of many that’d spend 5k for the opportunity to steal.


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[Gila]

Every states residents scream and whine every time license fees are increased, how do you think a 100.00 per tag fee increase for residents would fly?

It won’t fly…no one would even suggest it. I didn’t

 

[WRO]

It won’t fly…no one would even suggest it. I didn’t

You literally suggested it in your original post and again alluded to it here.

 

[dtrkyman]

I would pay an extra hundred or 4 if I could draw more often!

 

[Traindriver]

I’d gladly pay a trespass fee. I’ve been lucky enough to draw 3 NR tags over the last three years. It’s been hard to find any access to scouts or private lands.
It doesn’t seem like the outfitters are very ambitious unless you want to sit in their lodge and pay a lot of money to road hunt.
We’ve met some great locals and the ranchers are all very nice.

 

[bullet225ho]

Brother....folks in NM or any other state will never pay to get access to land to steal stuff. That statement alone literally makes everything you've posted, thought about posting or deleted from posting a total crock. Thieves are thieves and they won't spend money to steal stuff. You realize that any Tom Dick or Harry with a truck, car, motorcycle, side by side cand drive anywhere that a person with an elk tag can....don't you.???? Have you not seen multiple threads about folks stealing stuff out of trucks in basically any unit in NM. If you think those thieves paid to drive up and down forest roads your my friend are an idiot.

 

[SW hunter]

So do you work for infinite outdoors and are doing business development?

How do you intend to deal with the massive amount of lost revenue to nmfg with your proposal?

Also how do you propose to compensate all the lost income to ranchers, guides, and outfitters?

Or just **** them and their businesses is your solution?

You do realize your dream screws non residents and selling at as anything else is misleading at best.

It’s funny your anti privatization of hunting, but you support influencers that whore out our public resources for a profit.

I can see how a land owner would miss out on an opportunity to sell an expensive tag. Question I wrestle with is should that tag be for making cash? Or should it be for controlling populations and decreasing the damage animals can do to that land and the available food there? I prefer a system where that landowner still gets the tags but its for their own use or designee prior to issue. Seems to work fine in other states.

But the tags allocated just for outfitters is another embarrassing govt giveaway. They shouldn't get some welfare govt subsidy to help prop up their industry by the govt funneling business their direction. If those handful of outfitters cant make it without the govt forcing business their way then they should look for other business opportunities. So yeah F those outfitter businesses if they cant survive in a free market like they do in every other state.