New Mexico Elk Hunters (Non Residents)

[BBob]

He’s also doing business development for infinite outdoors..

When I followed his link and looked I said "WTF" is this? Makes sense now

 

[Gila]

So do you work for infinite outdoors and are doing business development?

No I do not…I just recently found out about them. Ryan had them as a guest on the Shoot2Hunt podcast. They do some good things for really good prices. Go check out the podcast. Definitely a good outfit.

How do you intend to deal with the massive amount of lost revenue to nmfg with your proposal?

There is no lost revenue. Actually would increase the amount of federal excise taxes going to the DOW. Also local revenue would increase because of more DIY hunters buying gear and supplies…lodging etc.

Also how do you propose to compensate all the lost income to ranchers, guides, and outfitters?

Actually, ranchers would have more income from the programs. And it would be stable income instead of relying on tag authorizations which varies year to year. Hunters need to have a choice to book an outfitter or not. With the technology we have today with e-scouting and web services like GoHunt, Onx outfitters aren’t really necessary. We need to do what’s best for the elk and the hunters, so there will be fewer outfitted hunts because that is what the hunter wants.

Or just **** them and their businesses is your solution?

Maybe a better question is how many non-resident hunters are wealthy enough to even afford an outfitted elk hunt? We need to open doors to increase hunting opportunity or else there won’t be any hunting for anyone at any price.

You do realize your dream screws non residents and selling at as anything else is misleading at best.

Think about it! A non-resident would have much higher draw odds across the board because the number of tags allocated to the draw would increase maybe over several times from what it is now. The dream is that residents and non-residents alike will someday have reasonable draw odds.

 

[Gila]

Trolling would be saying “look it’s the business development guy from infinite out doors that won gold at the special Olympics”

Your agenda being challenged isn’t trolling.

You know that’s not a bad idea…I may just invest. I think they are going somewhere.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Today, only 6% of the tags in the public draw are allocated to non-residents without an outfitter contract. Those 6% have access to only the private properties in a GMU that have unit wide landowner tags. Conversely, all Unit Wide land owner tag holders can hunt any public lands in the GMU with their choice of seasons. Some private properties (most) are ranch only and don’t accept public access. 10% of the tags in the public draw are allocated to non-residents that have an outfitter contract. Most of the e-plus private property is either owned by outfitters, contracted out to outfitters, or have their own outfitters. Most of the non-resident tags end up with an outfitter. Those hunts go for 8K -20K plus. Almost half of all tags for a GMU go to non-residents.

With the proposed E-Plus system, land owner tags would go away. Those tags would go into the public draw. There would not be any tags allocated to a non-resident with an outfitter contract. The tag allocation would be 90% residents….10% non-residents like in Wyoming. The landowner would be offered a program to allow public hunting access for critical habitat and if they meet certain other criteria. Very similar to South Dakota’s walk-in program. South Dakota has enrolled most of the best pronghorn and mule deer private ranches for public hunting (1.3 million acres).

If the e-plus landowner doesn’t want to opt into the program then they would be allowed to book through a hunting service like Infinite Outdoors to a hunter that is a valid tag holder. There are other like services available to the landowner. In some states if the ranch is large enough and there actually are resident elk herds, the land owner can apply for tags for his immediate family.

I wouldn’t believe these guys on here…they are a bit math challenged.

Infinite Outdoors

The movement that's making private land access more affordable for all.

infiniteoutdoorsusa.com

Awww this is why your poll conveniently leaves out NO.

e tags system is a great system. It’s one of the better ran and more mutually beneficial programs for both land owners and hunters.

It’s is dumb to say Residents don’t buy LO unit wide vouchers because they absolutely do. Especially in the nonpremium units.

 

[Gila]

Awww this is why your poll conveniently leaves out NO.

e tags system is a great system. It’s one of the better ran and more mutually beneficial programs for both land owners and hunters.

It’s is dumb to say Residents don’t buy LO unit wide vouchers because they absolutely do. Especially in the nonpremium units.

Those UW lo tags are sometimes sold two or three times. An outfitter won’t sell a resident a UW tag unless there is a last minute cancellation. What is dumb is calling for days on end thinking that a landowner will sell you a unit wide tag because the outfitters have them all…

 

[WRO]

So do you work for infinite outdoors and are doing business development?

No I do not…I just recently found out about them. Ryan had them as a guest on the Shoot2Hunt podcast. They do some good things for really good prices. Go check out the podcast. Definitely a good outfit.

How do you intend to deal with the massive amount of lost revenue to nmfg with your proposal?

There is no lost revenue. Actually would increase the amount of federal excise taxes going to the DOW. Also local revenue would increase because of more DIY hunters buying gear and supplies…lodging etc.

Also how do you propose to compensate all the lost income to ranchers, guides, and outfitters?

Actually, ranchers would have more income from the programs. And it would be stable income instead of relying on tag authorizations which varies year to year. Hunters need to have a choice to book an outfitter or not. With the technology we have today with e-scouting and web services like GoHunt, Onx outfitters aren’t really necessary. We need to do what’s best for the elk and the hunters, so there will be fewer outfitted hunts because that is what the hunter wants.

Or just **** them and their businesses is your solution?

Maybe a better question is how many non-resident hunters are wealthy enough to even afford an outfitted elk hunt? We need to open doors to increase hunting opportunity or else there won’t be any hunting for anyone at any price.

You do realize your dream screws non residents and selling at as anything else is misleading at best.

Think about it! A non-resident would have much higher draw odds across the board because the number of tags allocated to the draw would increase several times from what it is now. The dream is that residents and non-residents alike will someday have reasonable draw odds.

How is there no lost revenue when a nr pays 773 dollars and a resident pays 69.00 and your proposing cutting 75% of the nr elk tag sales. Not to mention the sales tax paid on vouchers and guided hunts? Use fees paid on public land? Please show your work..


How would ranchers have more income, besides the really small scrs, unless it’s a lot of money it wouldn’t cover much.

I’ve done both diy and guided in nm, I guarantee I give more money to my local guide (2 day total) than I ever spend in a local business in total.

Obviously there’s enough wealthy non residents that the tags sell out every year and continue to go up in price. 4% more tags won’t do shit for draw odds, especially when guys like you continually pimp influencers that add more applicants every year.

I did think about it, I’d like the option of buying a tag if I don’t draw. It’s about prioritizing your budget, for the cost of a Starbucks on weekdays I can buy a voucher every other year or every year depending on the unit.

I apply both guided and non guided depending on the year and have drawn both. I like the option, 4% to the general won’t help at all, cutting the total allocation 5% in the draw and the option to purchase a voucher is a kick in the nuts to nonresidents.

Once again, nm is a dirt poor state and a lot of people depend on guiding and outfitting income to get through the year, how do you propose to compensate them, tell them to become programmers?

 

[WRO]

Those UW lo tags are sometimes sold two or three times. An outfitter won’t sell a resident a UW tag unless there is a last minute cancellation. What is dumb is calling for days on end thinking that a landowner will sell you a unit wide tag because the outfitters have them all…

The **** they won’t, I could get you one tomorrow. They’re advertised on Facebook, hunters domain, Craigslist, epic outdoors, hunting fool, etc. No where do they say no residents can purchase.


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[Gila]

How is there no lost revenue when a nr pays 773 dollars and a resident pays 69.00 and your proposing cutting 75% of the nr elk tag sales. Not to mention the sales tax paid on vouchers and guided hunts? Use fees paid on public land? Please show your work..


How would ranchers have more income, besides the really small scrs, unless it’s a lot of money it wouldn’t cover much.

I’ve done both diy and guided in nm, I guarantee I give more money to my local guide (2 day total) than I ever spend in a local business in total.

Obviously there’s enough wealthy non residents that the tags sell out every year and continue to go up in price. 4% more tags won’t do shit for draw odds, especially when guys like you continually pimp influencers that add more applicants every year.

I did think about it, I’d like the option of buying a tag if I don’t draw. It’s about prioritizing your budget, for the cost of a Starbucks on weekdays I can buy a voucher every other year or every year depending on the unit.

I apply both guided and non guided depending on the year and have drawn both. I like the option, 4% to the general won’t help at all, cutting the total allocation 5% in the draw and the option to purchase a voucher is a kick in the nuts to nonresidents.

Once again, nm is a dirt poor state and a lot of people depend on guiding and outfitting income to get through the year, how do you propose to compensate them, tell them to become programmers?

There would be no reduction in the number of non-resident tags because the private land tags would go into the public draw…a random draw instead of being forced into an outfitted hunt or sold to the highest bidder. I drink a lot of coffee. Don’t think i could drink up 20K of Starbucks in a years time.

 

[Ten Bears]

You know that’s not a bad idea…I may just invest. I think they are going somewhere.

maybe take that investment money and buy some land in NM so you can get your own tag.

heck you could even give your LO tags away to those non residents since you want to help them out so much.

it would save everyone from hearing your fake self serving issues with the program.

 

[WRO]

There would be no reduction in the number of non-resident tags because the private land tags would go into the public draw…a random draw instead of being forced into an outfitted hunt or sold to the highest bidder. I drink a lot of coffee. Don’t think i could drink up 20K of Starbucks in a years time.

Really?

You’re proposing a 5% reduction in nr tags in the draw plus eliminating the non residents who buy vouchers at non resident tag cost that are not included in the draw allocation.

Please explain it to me again how your magical math works?

I can buy bull tags in lesser units right now for 1500-2500 all day long.

I get that being deceitful is the bread and butter of politicians and lobbyists, but you can’t make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

 

[5MilesBack]

Would I pay extra for access to private land? Maybe. But totally depends on "which" private land, how big of property, terrain, and limited access to just me. For the right property and situation........sure, I'd pay an extra $100.

 

[575 ELK]

Why would anyone want to change anything about NM elk hunting? IMO NM has one of the best elk hunting programs in the west. We have an elk herd that people from all over the country try to draw tags to hunt here, we have the E Plus program that gives you an opportunity to purchase a tag if you don’t draw and the EPlus opens up hundreds of thousands acres of great elk hunting private land that otherwise would be off limits without a big trespass fee. No point system so everyone has a shot every year. I say let the NMG&F professional’s do what they do best, manage NM elk.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Those UW lo tags are sometimes sold two or three times. An outfitter won’t sell a resident a UW tag unless there is a last minute cancellation. What is dumb is calling for days on end thinking that a landowner will sell you a unit wide tag because the outfitters have them all…

Ha you have an excuse for everything to try to make your point against UW LO vouchers even if it’s complete BS..

I have lots of friends that are NM residents that buy UW vouchers when ever they don’t draw.

 

[roadrunner]

I’ll keep responding and calling you out for your well noted lies on here every time.

I am sure all the “trolls” will do the same.

Ignore it all you want. It’s gonna be there.

"Calling you out".

Hilarious hall monitors and Karen's

 

[Ten Bears]

"Calling you out".

Hilarious hall monitors and Karen's

the irony of your comment is what is hilarious.

 

[Gila]

Ha you have an excuse for everything to try to make your point against UW LO vouchers even if it’s complete BS..

I have lots of friends that are NM residents that buy UW vouchers when ever they don’t draw.

Riiiiggghhht! It is possible to get one of those tags like I said, but very unlikely for a resident. The e-plus landowner list should be out any day now. It is about 300 pages long for all of the GMUs. There is a slightly better chance to buy a LO authorization in a shitty unit but an outfitter has to be willing to part with one in the first place. Those are really non-resident tags, let’s be honest with one another.

Most experienced elk hunters want to scout their own elk, do their own calling, and make their own camp. The 10% of the non-resident outfitter tags sometimes have twice the odds as a resident for the same GMU and the same hunt. That’s because most non-residents don’t want to use an outfitter. Outfitters were having such as hard time booking those hunts tht they knocked the contracts back to a 2 day requirement. There are so few resident tags in the public draw that the odds seldom go above 12%. Even in a decent WMA for residents only, the odds are less than 10%. Residents are forced to hunt other states because it takes many years sometimes to draw a mature bull tag period.

 

[Gila]

Why would anyone want to change anything about NM elk hunting? IMO NM has one of the best elk hunting programs in the west. We have an elk herd that people from all over the country try to draw tags to hunt here, we have the E Plus program that gives you an opportunity to purchase a tag if you don’t draw and the EPlus opens up hundreds of thousands acres of great elk hunting private land that otherwise would be off limits without a big trespass fee. No point system so everyone has a shot every year. I say let the NMG&F professional’s do what they do best, manage NM elk.

Yet another propo by an outfitter…

 

[Gila]

He’s also doing business development for infinite outdoors..


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NOT TRUE at all.

 

[Ten Bears]

apparently every person that disagrees with this mysterious altruistic savior of hunting in New Mexico is a guide, troll, or wrong.

 

[Gila]

This how I found out about Infinite Outdoors…several months ago: