new mexicans not happy with res / non res splits

[huntsd]

lol guess the 6% of tags we non guided non res get is too much

 

[LostArra]

That guy has to be Rob Shaul's cousin.

 

[Elkangle]

Up set he didmt get his big bull tag.. its all bout the greed of horns.

 

[huntsd]

how about a 90-10 split and we get rid of the guide draw!

 

[BuckSmasher]

how about a 90-10 split and we get rid of the guide draw!

Plus raise tag fees 3x and decrease application fee's to $5. So the people that get to play pay and the folks that don't draw aren't out tons of money.

 

[LCguy]

how about a 90-10 split and we get rid of the guide draw!

I think this is reasonable. The main issue that I see as a resident is that our system is really set up as outfitter and landowner welfare. When you have nearly 40% of elk licenes in the state going directly to landowners, who then funnel it through outfitters, to make a huge profit off of, I think that is the crux of the issue.

Many New Mexicans have their ire directed at the wrong place. The draw is generally not the issue. I am a resident and I can count on a deer tag every year and an elk tag 4ish out of every 5ish years. Many residents don't do their homework because there is really no excuse to not draw at least a deer tag 80% of the time.

The EPLUS system definitely needs some fine-tuning. I can see both sides of the argument. Heck, I killed a bull on EPLUS land this past year but there is some nuance in the system and some really locale-specific issues that the wider public doesn't take into account.

In some units, landowners refuse to work with the Forest Service on an easement so they can "landlock" prime elk habitat that is on public land so only their clients can hunt said public land (looking at you Darryl Welty). Are there ways around this? Sure, can take less direct routes, hike in, etc., but without the financial incentives tied to EPLUS, I doubt it would be as big an issue as it currently is. In some units, landowners actively try to run people off of public land under false pretenses or even use helicopters to push elk back onto their ranches.

 

[huntsd]

I think this is reasonable. The main issue that I see as a resident is that our system is really set up as outfitter and landowner welfare. When you have nearly 40% of elk licenes in the state going directly to landowners, who then funnel it through outfitters, to make a huge profit off of, I think that is the crux of the issue.

well said. its not the non res vs res. its this. Correct me if i am wrong but antelope is just as bad. OTC licenses, but you have to know or pay a landowner (or guide with private access) to use the tag...takes away from tags that can be given out to public res or non res

 

[RS_Non-Res]

Jessie and the falsely named NMWF needs to quit blowing smoke up our ... quit using communist/Alinsky/Obummer techniques to agitate and take what isn't his...and grow up. Furthermore, he knows that New Mexicans have never waited for hunting licenses to hunt for food and that has nothing to do with license availability.

 

[LCguy]

well said. its not the non res vs res. its this. Correct me if i am wrong but antelope is just as bad. OTC licenses, but you have to know or pay a landowner (or guide with private access) to use the tag...takes away from tags that can be given out to public res or non res

Yep, exactly, and then it is turned into res vs. non-res because, let's face it, your average New Mexican can't afford to spend $12k+ on an elk tag but wealthy out-of-state hunters can. The reality is more res vs. landowners/outfitters.

 

[Ten Bears]

they should be more worried about how poorly ran that state is in general, instead of non residents getting 6% of tags in the draw.

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

Not a R/NR issue. If anything it’s a LO/Guide vs R/NR issue. At minimum-

- 90/10 split

- No outfitter tags, let them sink or swim based on the services they provide. Just a guess but I assume they get over half the Eplus tags too. I wonder what the actual total percent of guaranteed tags they get each year….. insane

- Review/audit E plus system. I have a feeling since it’s NM and a lot of money is involved, there is a decent amount of abuse/misallocation, could add 10-20% of tags back to public draw for everyone


- Eplus tags transferable once by LO only

Seems simply or obvious so that’s how you know they won’t do it.

 

[wapitibob]

When you get 84% of the draw tags, the Cow Elk tags, and the WMA tags, and cry you aren't getting a fair share of the tags, nobody takes you seriously.
E-Plus is going nowhere as long as NMWF/NMBHA have their hands in it, and their continued nonsense of wanting those private tags back in the public draw will ensure it. LO's/Outfitter's can show the economics of their tags, and no legislator is going to trade $10,000 vouchers for $1,000 public tags. The only change that has a chance is to make those private tags Ranch Only.

 

[CMF]

The main issue that I see as a resident is that our system is really set up as outfitter and landowner welfare. When you have nearly 40% of elk licenes in the state going directly to landowners, who then funnel it through outfitters, to make a huge profit off of, I think that is the crux of the issue.

Many New Mexicans have their ire directed at the wrong place.

Yep. I saw that Facebook post of the news channel. It's crazy how many people don't realize the average non-res only has a chance at 6% of the tags.

 

[Reburn]

lol guess the 6% of tags we non guided non res get is too much

Screw it lets just let the Texans keep buying NM and we can just privatize everything and not have any draw. Problem solved. Everyone can just buy private tags.

 

[Gila]

Yep. I saw that Facebook post of the news channel. It's crazy how many people don't realize the average non-res only has a chance at 6% of the tags.

Much less than half of all of the big-game tags are actually in the public lands draw. The rest of the tags are private land authorizations sold to non-residents by outfitters. Once the outfitters fill up clients for the season, the rest of the authorizations are sold to the highest bidding non-residents. Non-residents pay much more to the state in tag fees than residents do.

So in reality once the outfitter pool and the private land OTC tags (no quota) are subtracted, residents get like less than 25% of the tags and non-residents get something on the order of 2%. But not really. There isn’t enough data to really know what percentage of the total big game tags actually get into the public draw.

What residents want is 90% of the total big game tags. Get rid of the 10% outfitter pool and give a true 10% of the total tags to non-residents. To do that, get rid of the OTC private land tags and landowner, outfitter welfare tags. Let the lucky public draw tag holders choose to use an outfitter or not. If landowners want hunting on their property they can get paid by the state per acre for public hunting access. Examples are Montana block management and SD walk-in areas.

If landowners don’t want public hunting, they can sell trespass authorizations to a valid tag holder. There are multiple internet services out there now that can connect hunters to landowners and will book the hunts.

 

[Elkman17]

This weeks just full of good news. Wyoming wants to price us out, and NM wants to cut our already slim chances.

 

[AZDC]

I think there needs to be a distinction made between tags pulled in the DRAW and those privately sold. Yes, if you limited e-plug elk tags and private land-owner tags the total % of NRs hunting in NM would go down. I assume everyone thinks that removing or reducing the land owner tags earned via E-Plus would get more R & NR tags because those land owner elk tags would be reallocated to the Draw. I’m not sure what NMDOW’s cut is of those tags but would be interested to see the impact economically if we remove the NRs who are paying top dollar for these tags.

I personally know of tons of residents who draw every year. If you’re putting in for low odds hunts as your ONLY options then yeah things aren’t going to work out for you. I know a group consisting of a family and friends where there were 6 harvested elk across them. All residents, 4 bulls and 2 cows. Everything I’ve seen and heard contrasts what is shared in that video. Could it always be better sure but I live in AZ as a resident. I know people who haven’t drawn for 15 years but they don’t have land owner tags? We have two different systems and yet same results.

If you’re applying ONLY for trophy hunts you’ll have trophy hunt ODDS unless you’re willing to fork up trophy hunt money to hunt trophy elk on private property in the US

 

[Beendare]

If NM LO tags went away the price of some of those ranches and land values would drop like a rock.

 

[Gila]

Next year will be less tags in the public draw. The mule deer are hanging on by a thread. The pronghorn decimated. Too many mature bulls and bucks are being taken in some unts. The Elk in the Greater Gila units are in decline as well as around the Valle Vidal. The wolves in the Gila are moving into the villages and taking out ponies, foals, goats, sheep, calves….you name it. County commissioners are showing up at the game commission meetings to complain about all of the wolf attacks.

The commission’s answer to addressing the herd declines is to lower the success rates by taking away rifle hunts and replacing them with primitive muzzleloader hunts. And of course reducing the actual number of tags in the public draws. The last thing they do is reduce the number of private land tags. Public hunting on public lands here is circling the drain and it’s not coming back unless we get support. The antis have us just where they want us. The only national groups that support us are NMWF and BHA. Yet the state donates dozens of annual hunts to conservation organizations for fund raising.

 

[Ten Bears]

do we really need to do this for the 20th time on here ?
it’s so dramatic and filled with bullshit.

especially coming from the usual suspects that work for folks that want the LO tags to be ranch only since they work for organizations that connect hunters with ranches to hunt.