new mexicans not happy with res / non res splits

[dtrkyman]

How about I get to sell the tag I drew for 10k? If you want to open up a real can of worms!


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[Gila]

Screw it lets just let the Texans keep buying NM and we can just privatize everything and not have any draw. Problem solved. Everyone can just buy private tags.

You give us all of the Permian Basin and we’ll give you allbeturkeys all the way up to the Colorado border. But you will have to take all of the Ibex. We’ll also through in some elk tags in the Lincoln…

 

[Reburn]

You give us all of the Permian Basin and we’ll give you allbeturkeys all the way up to the Colorado border. But you will have to take all of the Ibex. We’ll also through in some elk tags in the Lincoln…

You can buy all of the permian basin you want. "Give" this isnt socialism although you want it to be. I say keep private tags, private.

 

[Mr.Ktm]

Wonder how many of the guys complaining hunt other states each year?

 

[bayoublaster7527]

That guy has to be Rob Shaul's cousin.

Hilarious. From Rob Shaul “One Non-resident Hunter is one Non-resident Hunter too many” What a loser.

 

[MTBackroads]

Move to New Mexico and reap all the benefits

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Jessie and the falsely named NMWF needs to quit blowing smoke up our ... quit using communist/Alinsky/Obummer techniques to agitate and take what isn't his...and grow up. Furthermore, he knows that New Mexicans have never waited for hunting licenses to hunt for food and that has nothing to do with license availability.

I am sure Jesse will leverage his buddies with Wildlife For All to push this initiative in the legislature.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

they should be more worried about how poorly ran that state is in general, instead of non residents getting 6% of tags in the draw.

Yep. Instead of vilifying Non-resident hunters, maybe focus on good governance, reducing crime, improving public education, and building economic opportunity.

 

[Gila]

I haven’t heard of any residents who are against non-residents. Everyone on this thread and any other thread I have been involved with is trying to increase non-resident tag allocation at least by five times the number of tags that they are allocated now. 10% of the total tags is quite a bit more than 6% of a fraction. I don’t know why some of you think you need to lie and gaslight. My best guess is that some of you have good gigs going scalping left over tags. Or you are members of a hunt club. You don’t act like outfitters or landowners. Those tags belong in the public draw because the public own the wildlife.

 

[Reburn]

Yep. Instead of vilifying Non-resident hunters, maybe focus on good governance, reducing crime, improving public education, and building economic opportunity.

So basically make it Texas.

I'll stay here and just use the money I save on state income tax to buy properties but not spend more then 6 months a year there or declare residence.

For what its worth I would rather live in Tijuana then ABQ.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Not a R/NR issue. If anything it’s a LO/Guide vs R/NR issue. At minimum-

- 90/10 split

- No outfitter tags, let them sink or swim based on the services they provide. Just a guess but I assume they get over half the Eplus tags too. I wonder what the actual total percent of guaranteed tags they get each year….. insane

- Review/audit E plus system. I have a feeling since it’s NM and a lot of money is involved, there is a decent amount of abuse/misallocation, could add 10-20% of tags back to public draw for everyone


- Eplus tags transferable once by LO only

Seems simply or obvious so that’s how you know they won’t do it.

I don’t care one way or the other but what everyone is discounting is that 10%+ of all the tags in NM have an additional State tax on the cost of the hunt and an additional use fee to NF/BLM that the NR is paying.

on some hunts like sheep that’s additional fee of $2k that NR are providing to subsidize NM even more.

 

[Gila]

Not a R/NR issue. If anything it’s a LO/Guide vs R/NR issue. At minimum-

- 90/10 split

- No outfitter tags, let them sink or swim based on the services they provide. Just a guess but I assume they get over half the Eplus tags too. I wonder what the actual total percent of guaranteed tags they get each year….. insane

- Review/audit E plus system. I have a feeling since it’s NM and a lot of money is involved, there is a decent amount of abuse/misallocation, could add 10-20% of tags back to public draw for everyone


- Eplus tags transferable once by LO only

Seems simply or obvious so that’s how you know they won’t do it.

Most of the land owners contract out to outfitters or the ranch owners become outfitters themselves. The 10% of the public draw is small potatoes for the outfitters. The outfitters pool applicants must sign a minimum two day guided contract.

What too many hunters don’t understand is that New Mexico big game hunting is divided into two distinct universes: Private lands vs Public lands. Yet a species is managed in one Game Management Unit. Only the Public lands universe goes into the public draw. The rest of the tags (which are vastly more in the private universe) are sold over the counter (converted from trespass authorizations) with no quota for elk, deer and Pronghorn. However bear, javelina, barbary sheep, turkeys are sold OTC for both universes and have few tags in the public draws for the public universe.

Elk-Plus is a horse of a different color. Primary Management Zones have a concept of UNIT WIDE landowner tags or ranch only tags. Special management zones are ranch only. The unit wide LO tags open up all public lands as well as other ranches in the program to a holder of those LO tags. Conversely, public draw tag holders can hunt any ranch in the program within a GMU. In the secondary management zone which borders the other two types of zones, private universe elk tags are sold OTC with no quota, either sex with a rifle season that opens 1st of October.

So if any of you ask the question: “How in the world can they manage the wildlife in those GMUs?”. The answer I think, can be found within the fact that 80% of resident hunters fail to draw any big game tag each year. The elk herds in the greater Gila, Jemez and Valle Vidal and other areas are in decline. The pronghorn and mule deer herds across the state are in decline. Some areas are in worse decline than other areas.

Ep. 283: Landowner Tags and EPLUS Access with Jesse Deubel of the New Mexico Wildlife Federation | MeatEater Podcasts

For this week's interview, Cal talks with Jesse Deubel about elk tag distribution and the EPLUS system in New Mexico, why draw odds are slim for non-residents and residents alike, "Take Back Your Elk," and the new game commissioner. Connect with Cal and MeatEater Cal on Instagram and Twitter...

www.themeateater.com

 

[Ten Bears]

again with your BS and old podcast from a guy who hunts on Landowner tags. can’t make it up

 

[WRO]

If you guys screw with eplus too much, you won’t have any elk left to hunt in nm. Arizona is a great example, pretty much any thing that’s not National Forest is otc shoot onsite.

Nm has Jennings law, ranchers that make money off elk won’t murder them, when they can’t make money, they’ll be whole sale slaughter and much of the state will go from primary management to secondary management.

 

[WRO]

I haven’t heard of any residents who are against non-residents. Everyone on this thread and any other thread I have been involved with is trying to increase non-resident tag allocation at least by five times the number of tags that they are allocated now. 10% of the total tags is quite a bit more than 6% of a fraction. I don’t know why some of you think you need to lie and gaslight. My best guess is that some of you have good gigs going scalping left over tags. Or you are members of a hunt club. You don’t act like outfitters or landowners. Those tags belong in the public draw because the public own the wildlife.

I see maths skills are still your strong suit..


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[WRO]

made Could it always be better sure but I live in AZ as a resident. I know people who haven’t drawn for 15 years but they don’t have land owner tags? We have two different systems and yet same results.

If you look at Arizonas elk management, it’s criminal the amount of elk killed to appease ranchers. Az could have easily 50% more elk if it weren’t for their lobby.

Perhaps if they made a little money from them they wouldn’t want them all dead.


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[AZDC]

If you look at Arizonas elk management, it’s criminal the amount of elk killed to appease ranchers. Az could have easily 50% more elk if it weren’t for their lobby.

Perhaps if they made a little money from them they wouldn’t want them all dead.


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I wasn’t aware of that! Thank you for sharing! That seals the deal and definitely knocks down AZ below NM in my book

 

[Legend]

If you look at Arizonas elk management, it’s criminal the amount of elk killed to appease ranchers. Az could have easily 50% more elk if it weren’t for their lobby.

Perhaps if they made a little money from them they wouldn’t want them all dead.


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You are playing "The Kings Game". Any system that monetizes public wildlife for private profit is doomed. Destined to only allow hunting for the wealthy. That is a fact. And completely against the north american model of wildlife conservation.

Slippery slope and no end to the slipping in sight.

 

[WRO]

You are playing "The Kings Game". Any system that monetizes public wildlife for private profit is doomed. Destined to only allow hunting for the wealthy. That is a fact. And completely against the north american model of wildlife conservation.

Slippery slope and no end to the slipping in sight.

I’m not playing any games, I’m simply stating facts.

If you don’t they’re treated as vermin, every western state does it. Upom got the shoulder seasons authorized that have lead to 50k elk population decrease. Oregon has very lax damage tag rules, as do most states to appease landowners. If they have value, they’ll be preserved. The only way it becomes the kings game is if our public lands disappear.

 

[Legend]

I’m not playing any games, I’m simply stating facts.

If you don’t they’re treated as vermin, every western state does it. Upom got the shoulder seasons authorized that have lead to 50k elk population decrease. Oregon has very lax damage tag rules, as do most states to appease landowners. If they have value, they’ll be preserved. The only way it becomes the kings game is if our public lands disappear.

It would be better to have 50% fewer elk than to private wildlife. That's a fact......if you want hunting to be affordable for all.