New Colorado Elk Setup - New to MZ

[ColoradoNewbie]

So pulled a MZ Elk tag this year - in GMU 50 so I probably won't get anything anyways... Also trying to source primers and powders right now seems bleak, if I can't get everything I need I will surrender the tag.

Been lurking a lot trying to figure out the MZ world - which has taken some time!


What I ordered so far:
CVA Accura MR-X w/ Williams peep sites (open sites for CO rules) ($580)
Thor 4 pack of bullet fitments ($20)

What I am planning:
- Thor conicals sized correctly, 300gr

BH Setup:
- BH 209 breach plug (still don't know what or how this is different than OEM, so any insight on the "why"?, I assume it's designed to burn better with BH209 powder?)
- BH 209 powder
- Have a couple of suggestions for primers but can't find them. I know not all #209 primers are the same, but can any technically work? I see a lot of brands that say "shotgun" on them. Not worried about getting top-of-the-line, just don't want a firearm to blow up in my face!

Now if I can't find the BH209, keep the OEM breach plug in-place, I can run Tripple 7 right?

I think this should at least get me up and running? I know I still will need small stuff like charge tubes, etc.

 

[ColoradoNewbie]

I guess I can't edit my initial post.

Was able to find another site that described the BH209 Breach plug and its benefits, I also found a PDF of the manual which explained everything else! Imagine that!

 

[ElDiablito]

Sounds like you’re brand new to muzzys. I prefer BH209 but if I were you I’d grab some 777 and any kind of 209s you can find and start shooting. Best choice would be lower-powered “muzzy” 209s. The Thors are a great choice. Yes, you’d need a BH209 plug for a CVA if are shooting BH209 (but the OEM plug is fine for 777).

Primers and powders are quite widely available right now as compared to 6 months ago.

 

[ColoradoNewbie]

Sounds like you’re brand new to muzzys. I prefer BH209 but if I were you I’d grab some 777 and any kind of 209s you can find and start shooting. Best choice would be lower-powered “muzzy” 209s. The Thors are a great choice. Yes, you’d need a BH209 plug for a CVA if are shooting BH209 (but the OEM plug is fine for 777).

Primers and powders are quite widely available right now as compared to 6 months ago.

Yep brand new, the only knowledge about them I had was that they existed! The tag gave me a good reason to finally get into them though, glad for that.

Good call on just grabbing whatever 209's and some T7 to at least get started before I start ripping through the BH209, after hazmat and shipping I'm at $120 for 8 ounces.

Thanks again for the reply!

 

[ElDiablito]

Head over to Modern Muzzleloader for more great advice on muzzys.

 

[Kurts86]

I could be wrong but I think the CVA MR-X/LR-X now ship with the blackhorn 209 breech plug installed and another for pyrodex/triple 7.

I think Thor has a a universal size bullet now instead of picking .500-.503z. 300 gr is definitely the way to go for elk.

Getting reliable ignition from blackhorn 209 requires federal or CCI 209 primers. The Winchester ones are not as hot, especially those branded for 777.

I’ve had zero problem getting primers or blackhorn 209 recently. In February I flew to AZ for a muzzleloader hunt and just put in a pickup order at scheels for powder and primers the week before I went. Doing that 2021-2023 would not have been possible.

 

[5MilesBack]

Yep brand new, the only knowledge about them I had was that they existed! The tag gave me a good reason to finally get into them though, glad for that.

I had a brand new ML sitting in my safe for 10 years back in 2017 when I got a call that someone turned in a ML bull tag and my 16yo daughter was next on the list. That was one week before ML season started. I was loading up my truck for my archery hunt and leaving the next morning when they called. I always figured we'd have the whole summer to figure it out when she drew. Well, that tag threw a wrench into all my plans, but we decided to take it. We had one range session to "figure it out". She shot the first bull I called in for her at 30 yards. It was a 300"+ bull. We used BH209 and at the time all we had were 338gr Powerbelt Platinums. They weren't ideal, but they worked.

And my youngest daughter (also 16 last year) got a ML cow moose tag in '23. She used BH209 and the new Hornady ELD-X Bore-driver's. They worked amazingly well at short range.

It won't take you long to figure it out. Good luck on your hunt. Make sure you come back and update the thread with pics after the season.

 

[Alex.D102]

If you can’t find BH209, 777 will be just fine. I didn’t want to pay the premium years ago for BH209 and my 777 runs perfectly. I also run the 209 breech as a better option.

The Thors are amazing. I’m running the 300gr with 95gr by volume 777 and it’s a stellar combo. My bull in 2022 took 1 step and tipped over. I drew the tag again this year so I’ll be running the same combo

You’ll want the good shotgun primers. The Winchester 777 primers don’t have a good reputation. I have had great luck with the CCI 209.

 

[ColoradoNewbie]

I could be wrong but I think the CVA MR-X/LR-X now ship with the blackhorn 209 breech plug installed and another for pyrodex/triple 7.

I think Thor has a a universal size bullet now instead of picking .500-.503z. 300 gr is definitely the way to go for elk.

Getting reliable ignition from blackhorn 209 requires federal or CCI 209 primers. The Winchester ones are not as hot, especially those branded for 777.

I’ve had zero problem getting primers or blackhorn 209 recently. In February I flew to AZ for a muzzleloader hunt and just put in a pickup order at scheels for powder and primers the week before I went. Doing that 2021-2023 would not have been possible.

I also read that it may come with both. So holding off on the breech plug until the rifle gets here. Yeah those two primers seem to be tricky to source right now, amazing how many fraudulent ML equipment sites are out there, easy to spot though, usually 70% cheaper than the market price.

I had a brand new ML sitting in my safe for 10 years back in 2017 when I got a call that someone turned in a ML bull tag and my 16yo daughter was next on the list. That was one week before ML season started. I was loading up my truck for my archery hunt and leaving the next morning when they called. I always figured we'd have the whole summer to figure it out when she drew. Well, that tag threw a wrench into all my plans, but we decided to take it. We had one range session to "figure it out". She shot the first bull I called in for her at 30 yards. It was a 300"+ bull. We used BH209 and at the time all we had were 338gr Powerbelt Platinums. They weren't ideal, but they worked.

And my youngest daughter (also 16 last year) got a ML cow moose tag in '23. She used BH209 and the new Hornady ELD-X Bore-driver's. They worked amazingly well at short range.

It won't take you long to figure it out. Good luck on your hunt. Make sure you come back and update the thread with pics after the season.

Awesome story, glad the hunt worked out both times! I think my odds of getting a cow will be less than 5%, but hey, I have to start somewhere. Still need to learn how to call. Never hunted before this season so its just research, research, research. I will need to download and save some youtube videos on how to field dress just in-case!

If you can’t find BH209, 777 will be just fine. I didn’t want to pay the premium years ago for BH209 and my 777 runs perfectly. I also run the 209 breech as a better option.

The Thors are amazing. I’m running the 300gr with 95gr by volume 777 and it’s a stellar combo. My bull in 2022 took 1 step and tipped over. I drew the tag again this year so I’ll be running the same combo

You’ll want the good shotgun primers. The Winchester 777 primers don’t have a good reputation. I have had great luck with the CCI 209.

Yeah those CCI 209's are usually everyone recommendation, now I just need to find them.

The thors have a good reputation. Seems like once you get a ML setup good you don't change anything!

 

[5MilesBack]

Where are you at in CO?

 

[ResearchinStuff]

use the hottest 209 primers you can find - ideally CCI 209M's. if you can only find the muzzleloader primers i'd skip the BH209 and just use 777. the bh209 breach plug is necessary for reliable ignition of bh209, as are the hot primers.

 

[ColoradoNewbie]

Where are you at in CO?

I live in Florissant and my cabin is in Hartsel, kind of the reason why I picked GMU50, I know its not good, but its walking distance from my cabin and I had 0 points. I also heard that knowing the land like the back of your hand is the best advantage regardless of GMU. So that's the plan this summer, lots of scouting, learning how to track, and glassing. Always willing go help others out to learn and also willing to pay for help on scouting this summer if you are interested, I see you're in the springs.

use the hottest 209 primers you can find - ideally CCI 209M's. if you can only find the muzzleloader primers i'd skip the BH209 and just use 777. the bh209 breach plug is necessary for reliable ignition of bh209, as are the hot primers.

I have a little bit of time to source primers, going to stick with CCI or federal as those are always the same two suggested.

 

[CodeMonkey]

I have the same gun and have only had one range trip so far.

Shooting BH209 + Thor bullets (.500 seems to work, a little on the loose side, but .501 would likely require a hammer to get out).

So far I will say the gun is fairly serviceable/useable out of the box. The factory sights aren't great, but aren't terrible. I'm going to try shooting a more high contrast target next time out to see if my eyes had issues with the sights or the target.

I have a set of Williams globe sights that I might put on the gun based on my next range trip. Current load that she seems to like is 110 grain of BH209 + a 300 grain Thor. My shoulder does not like this combo, so I have an Arrowhead brake that I will likely install, despite the hassle of now having to keep track of a funnel for a reload.

I also picked up a Spin Jag G3 rod as a range rod and will likely be packing this in since the factory collapsible rod (which will be attached to my bino harness for reloads) cannot be used for cleaning.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Also, I am shooting Federal 209A primers. Sometimes they fall right out after shooting and other times I require use of the tool CVA provides. Not sure if this is something to be concerned about. The part of receiver that faces the breech plug has also gotten pretty discolored and I can't seem to clean said discoloration, so I am likely getting some blowback.

 

[eltaco]

I was also new to MZ a couple of years ago and had a very similar plan. What I quickly learned was my MZ didn’t like any of the bullet to bore conicals… my barrel was garbage.

Long story short, I ended up with a completely different MZ and Fury Universal Fit bullets. Even with a very nice barrel, I find the difference between 0.001” to be too much for various situations. The Fury Universal is a much more consistent round out to longer distances. Give them a solid look!

 

[AC300win]

I’d seen a recent thread on another forum about CVA’s and Thor universal bullets being too tight. Be worth testing your sizing pack and they need to be relatively tight to load to produce consistent pressures.

Unfortunate for me, but my first 15 pack shot lights out while load testing and my next 15 pack of the same size, different lot, produced very poor accuracy and were noticeably much easier to seat compared to first lot.

 

[ElDiablito]

I’d seen a recent thread on another forum about CVA’s and Thor universal bullets being too tight. Be worth testing your sizing pack and they need to be relatively tight to load to produce consistent pressures.

Unfortunate for me, but my first 15 pack shot lights out while load testing and my next 15 pack of the same size, different lot, produced very poor accuracy and were noticeably much easier to seat compared to first lot.

Thors are easy to adjust the size on. It’s just the skirt that varies in size.

Custom sizing Thor Bullets

Toby Bridges is supposed to be posting a way to size thor bullets yourself,sometime, but here is the original way I started to show folks years ago. Very simple and easy to do. After a few bullets you'll get the hang of it. "Guys, I just got my order of Thors in today and they are to small! My...

rokslide.com

If you really want to be precise about it you can run them through an adjustable sizing die and make every bullet perfect for your barrel.

Sizing Die – Fury Custom Bullets

www.furycustombullets.com

With a hand press.

Lee Breech Lock Hand Press Kit

The Lee Breech Lock Hand Press takes all of the great features of the Lee Hand Held Press and adds Lee's convenient Breech Lock System that allows...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[ColoradoNewbie]

I have the same gun and have only had one range trip so far.

Shooting BH209 + Thor bullets (.500 seems to work, a little on the loose side, but .501 would likely require a hammer to get out).

So far I will say the gun is fairly serviceable/useable out of the box. The factory sights aren't great, but aren't terrible. I'm going to try shooting a more high contrast target next time out to see if my eyes had issues with the sights or the target.

I have a set of Williams globe sights that I might put on the gun based on my next range trip. Current load that she seems to like is 110 grain of BH209 + a 300 grain Thor. My shoulder does not like this combo, so I have an Arrowhead brake that I will likely install, despite the hassle of now having to keep track of a funnel for a reload.

I also picked up a Spin Jag G3 rod as a range rod and will likely be packing this in since the factory collapsible rod (which will be attached to my bino harness for reloads) cannot be used for cleaning.

Thanks for the info, hopefully I can get a good size to fit in my particular barrel with the Thor test size kit.

The "Northwest" edition comes with Williams peep sights, hopefully these are decent, I didn't see the "Williams" name mentioned on the other none Northwest addition. They still are not the globe sight, but I am hoping they are decent enough to not have to change.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

The Williams peep on the western is OK, the williams foolproof peep with the western front globe is great

 

[5MilesBack]

I live in Florissant and my cabin is in Hartsel, I have a little bit of time to source primers

If you ever make it down to the Springs, I can sell you a sleeve of CCI 209M's.