New bore cleaning strategies for 2025

[Marbles]

My question for the “ no clean “ guys is this. If you NEVER clean, or clean “ when the rifle tells you”, do you end up having to deal with the dreaded CARBON RING? I wonder if the majority of those who report the nightmares related to the carbon ring, and those having to use stuff only slightly less dramatic than dynamite to get it out, are most often those who rarely if ever clean their barrels or those who wait until “ the rifle tells them “.

I suspect powder plays a role in this. I was blaming an issue with a previously good load that started blowing primers on not cleaning. For the record, I also blamed it on switching from multiple fired and work hardened brass to once fired brass of the same brand and lot. I had also been trying other loads than my own prior to this.

Anyway, didn't think about cleaning at the time, several hundred rounds of my loads using N150 a thread on RS made me think of it. I bought a bore scope.

Barrel has never been cleaned (well yesterday I ran an oild patch down it after boiling off a thread adapter, but that was after this), I bough a bore scope, planning to document how not cleaning for over 2000 rounds was the issue.

At least with VV N150, things are clean enough I don't think I could make it better (other than an oiled patch before storage due to a few areas of pitting).



So, after arguing with @Ryan Avery and @Formidilosus all I did was prove myself wrong.

Personally, I would not extrapolate this to none VV powders for sure, and possibly not VV powders other than N150. Without record's to back it up, so could be my mind playing tricks, I feel my groups tighten up slightly after only shooting a VV powder for 50-100 rounds after trying other powders. Take that with a 50 pound bag of salt though.

 

[Skydog]

Another question for the "no clean" guys...

I get that you never (or rarely) clean a rifle AFTER shooting, but do you at least do a basic cleaning of a brand-new rifle BEFORE you shoot it? I'm not talking about a barrel break-in process. But...do you at least run a patch down the barrel to remove the residue of any factory oils/grease, debris/particles from the manufacturing process, etc., or do you literally just take the rifle out of the box and start shooting it?

 

[BBob]

It was basically negligible.

So you’d willingly just toss a 4” capable rifle for a 12” rifle at 800 yds? Mby on an elk but no way I’d give that up or call that acceptable on a Coues deer gun. Throw just a bit of wind in there and you’re screwed. Actually I’ve got no time for a 1.5 MOA gun even if some podcast says it’s relevant or not.

 

[Marbles]

So you’d willingly just toss a 4” capable rifle for a 12” rifle at 800 yds? Mby on an elk but no way I’d give that up or call that acceptable on a Coues deer gun. Throw just a bit of wind in there and you’re screwed. Actually I’ve got no time for a 1.5 MOA gun even if some podcast says it’s relevant or not.

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After playing with a lot of numbers on probability calculators, I would not personally waste effort distinguishing between the two as it doesn't meaningful extend my effective range.

Beyond that, I'd need a 30 shot group before I called it 4 inch capable at 800.

I'm also not going to take an 800 yard shot on an animal, elk or deer.

 

[BRTreedogs]

So you’d willingly just toss a 4” capable rifle for a 12” rifle at 800 yds? Mby on an elk but no way I’d give that up or call that acceptable on a Coues deer gun. Throw just a bit of wind in there and you’re screwed. Actually I’ve got no time for a 1.5 MOA gun even if some podcast says it’s relevant or not.

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Well you should listen to the podcast

But if I remember correctly the hit rate percentage of a .5 mos rifle and a 1.5 mos rifle was like .8 percent at 800 yards

Idk it was awhile ago

But less then 1 percent isn’t meaningful

You can make up whatever bs in ur head if you want.

Or you can actually use data based in reality.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Another question for the "no clean" guys...

I get that you never (or rarely) clean a rifle AFTER shooting, but do you at least do a basic cleaning of a brand-new rifle BEFORE you shoot it? I'm not talking about a barrel break-in process. But...do you at least run a patch down the barrel to remove the residue of any factory oils/grease, debris/particles from the manufacturing process, etc., or do you literally just take the rifle out of the box and start shooting it?

I do. I patch a new chamber and bore out with 99% isopropyl alcohol, and then go shoot. Currently testing the no clean theory in my 6.5 PRC and am at around 350 rounds with no notable changes in precision or velocity migration. I have lots of 10 shot groups documented from testing in varying temps for powder sensitivity, new vs 1x fired brass, etc.

 

[BBob]

Well you should listen to the podcast

I did. He was comparing a 1MOA to a 1.5MOA gun. Comparing those two you get a 2.4% difference in hit probability which in field conditions you will not see. You need to reach at least 5% to maybe see it and all the way to a 10% difference to definitely see it. I'd have to run WEZ to see if the difference from a .5MOA gun to a 1.5MOA would hit that percentage. Yes, yes I know that a .5MOA gun is not realistic in the field (taking a .5MOA off the bench gun will not hold to .5MOA in field conditions) but say we extrapolate our two examples (.5MOA,1.5MOA) up to realistic conditions we are still talking a fairly large accuracy difference between the two examples. I'll still take the better of those two examples if that accuracy is easily obtained.