New Argali 3P Tent? Help Me Design it.

[Brad@Argali]

I've been working on a new 3P tent design and I'd like some croudsourced opinions on one of the design components. In particular, I would like opinions from people that run hot tents as well as non-hot tents on whether we should include our ARC removeable stove jack on this tent. Without divulging too much, we have been debating internally whether or not a stove jack is important on this 3P tent. It is a 3P tent and can fit 3 large men with some gear, but is ideal for 2 people and all your gear.

Due to the design, it will either have 1 door and stove jack, or two doors and no stove jack. 2 doors offers better accessiblity, but would eliminate the ability to have a stove jack. We offer other hot tents to accomodate 2 people a stove and gear, and this 3P tent if it had a stove would be a 2P tent with all your gear, but it would be "cozy" with all your gear, stove and a wood pile.

My question for you all: How important is a stove for you in a smaller backpacking style tent like this? Why or why not? Also, how many of you have smaller backpacking tents for the warmer months and hot tents for the colder, wetter season?

And just to manage expectations, we won't be able to make everyone happy with the final product, but I do value experienced opinions so please fire away.

 

[j3h8]

The 3p with a stove could be pretty useful for two guys with gear, but I feel like it would be too tight once you add the stove. Ultimately becoming a large palace for one. This is assuming you're going with typical dimensions per person. Therefore I'd say no stove jack if you're sizing follows the above.

Side note: I hunt with a handful of buddies. Most of the time we are 2 guys per shelter due to the space needed for gear and the desire to not sleep nuts to butts.
The weight savings from a 2p to 3p vs 4p (I own your 4p and love it) wouldn't be so different to force myself to go with a 3p over the larger 4p. I enjoy my space, but I'm also a guy on the internet.

 

[Brad@Argali]

The 3p with a stove could be pretty useful for two guys with gear, but I feel like it would be too tight once you add the stove. Ultimately becoming a large palace for one. This is assuming you're going with typical dimensions per person. Therefore I'd say no stove jack if you're sizing follows the above.

Side note: I hunt with a handful of buddies. Most of the time we are 2 guys per shelter due to the space needed for gear and the desire to not sleep nuts to butts.
The weight savings from a 2p to 3p vs 4p (I own your 4p and love it) wouldn't be so different to force myself to go with a 3p over the larger 4p. I enjoy my space, but I'm also a guy on the internet.

Super helpful to hear. This tent will be unique in the design and space and I will say it will prioritize the space for each individual so you don't have to sleep nuts to butts. Thank you.

 

[HighUintas]

That's a hard question for me. I don't have a hot tent yet, but will get one sometime. I have primarily been looking at the Rincon and absaroka. I currently only use a durston xmid2. I will continue to use that in warm weather but would like to get a hot tent for late season and occasional family camping.

My use of a hot tent would most likely usually only be me, so the Rincon would be fine. However, I'll occasionally have a hunting partner and my wife definitely wouldn't take the Rincon with a stove and try to cram us both in with a stove. I would have to have the absaroka or your 3p.

So, I would say include the stove jack because I would most likely get your 3p when I do get a stove. It would work best for my needs.

 

[Idahobugler]

Archery elk I generally use a tent without a stove, but moving into October/November hunts I use a tent with the stove. Having a 3p tent with a stove jack to use when it gets colder would be very valuable to me personally.

 

[ianpadron]

I think the 3p with stove jack is smart Brad.

Lots of us have wives, kiddos, dogs that tag along on off season adventures when stoves aren't needed.

Being able to use the same tent come fall with your hunting buddy and a stove is a good cost effective approach for guys not looking to own multiple shelters.

I'm a gear junkie that rotates between 6 shelters depending on the situation but I know several of my buddies would be all about a 1 tent solution.

 

[jonnyviceroy]

I think something with a similar footprint to the Rincon but with a two pole design or different from the pyramid tipi style for more “liveable” space would be absolutely fantastic for a one man option with a stove jack.

 

[IBen]

I have over 100 nights in both the 2 and 4 person tents. Only thing id change is move the guy lines higher up on the 4 person tent they are kind of low.

For the sake of your line up have the 1p and 3p being both asymmetrical and stove less makes the most sense. I feel most people are using multiple tents especially people on Rokslide.

Waterproof zippers would be nice too. Without the stove jack perhaps that cost would be offset? I got a hmg ultamid 2 because it is higher by 10 inches with the same foot print as the 2p and has a waterproof zipper

 

[BigAl!]

Stoveless. Fitting 2 with two doors with plenty of room for gear would be perfect.

 

[Brad@Argali]

I think something with a similar footprint to the Rincon but with a two pole design or different from the pyramid tipi style for more “liveable” space would be absolutely fantastic for a one man option with a stove jack.

I'll just say it is a 2 pole design.

 

[Brad@Argali]

I have over 100 nights in both the 2 and 4 person tents. Only thing id change is move the guy lines higher up on the 4 person tent they are kind of low.

For the sake of your line up have the 1p and 3p being both asymmetrical and stove less makes the most sense. I feel most people are using multiple tents especially people on Rokslide.

Waterproof zippers would be nice too. Without the stove jack perhaps that cost would be offset? I got a hmg ultamid 2 because it is higher by 10 inches with the same foot print as the 2p and has a waterproof zipper

Sounds like you get out! That's good feedback on the guylines. I'm curious why you like the higher guyouts? We put ours where they are to create more space along the bottom of the tent for head and foot room and because you can generally get more stretch lower down on a tent if you are pulling out/down than you can up high. But, I'm open to ideas and you've definitely spent some nights in the tents and I'd love your thoughts.

On the waterproof zippers, I've found that they aren't truly waterproof for that long, which is why a zipper flap is needed for serious weather. And once you have the zipper flap, the waterproof zipper seems unnecessary. The HMG tent doesn't have a zipper cover if I remember correctly.

 

[Brad@Argali]

Stoveless. Fitting 2 with two doors with plenty of room for gear would be perfect.

Appreciate that.

 

[IowaNative]

I like the idea, and I even bought a KUIU for this reason. I just hope you can design a better stove jack. After my first, and last for this tent, in Colorado this year, the removable stove jack failed.

What material do you plan on manufacturing the jack from that can withstand the heat?

Although KUIU took care of me and my issue, I still returned it and went with a Seek Tent.

I believe my problem was not being able to get the stove jack at the correct angle and the material warping under heat.

 

[Brad@Argali]

Archery elk I generally use a tent without a stove, but moving into October/November hunts I use a tent with the stove. Having a 3p tent with a stove jack to use when it gets colder would be very valuable to me personally.

I think the 3p with stove jack is smart Brad.

Lots of us have wives, kiddos, dogs that tag along on off season adventures when stoves aren't needed.

Being able to use the same tent come fall with your hunting buddy and a stove is a good cost effective approach for guys not looking to own multiple shelters.

I'm a gear junkie that rotates between 6 shelters depending on the situation but I know several of my buddies would be all about a 1 tent solution.

Appreciate the insight and feedback.

 

[Brad@Argali]

I like the idea, and I even bought a KUIU for this reason. I just hope you can design a better stove jack. After my first, and last for this tent, in Colorado this year, the removable stove jack failed.

What material do you plan on manufacturing the jack from that can withstand the heat?

Although KUIU took care of me and my issue, I still returned it and went with a Seek Tent.

I believe my problem was not being able to get the stove jack at the correct angle and the material warping under heat.

I have no experience with a KUIU tent or stove jack so can't speak to that. We have been making a removeable stove jack on our Rincon 2P Tent and Absaroka 4P Tent for several years and they work well. It's our patent pending ARC stove jack design. The fabric we use is a welding fabric that can withstand heat up to 600 degrees.

 

[IowaNative]

I have no experience with a KUIU tent or stove jack so can't speak to that. We have been making a removeable stove jack on our Rincon 2P Tent and Absaroka 4P Tent for several years and they work well. It's our patent pending ARC stove jack design. The fabric we use is a welding fabric that can withstand heat up to 600 degrees.

I would be interested in a zip-in type instead of the friction fit. I believe a true zip in would make much more sense and allow for the correct angle and pressure to be applied.

What type of weight would you be thinking? Ultimately that is what caught my attention with my original. I like the stove to dry gear out and as a safety net, but the ultralight tent saved me a good 1.5 pounds.

 

[Brad@Argali]

I would be interested in a zip-in type instead of the friction fit. I believe a true zip in would make much more sense and allow for the correct angle and pressure to be applied.

What type of weight would you be thinking? Ultimately that is what caught my attention with my original. I like the stove to dry gear out and as a safety net, but the ultralight tent saved me a good 1.5 pounds.

Are you asking about the weight of the 3P tent or the stove jack? The stove jack adds about 4 ounces when you add in the zipper and the stove jack itself.

 

[IowaNative]

Are you asking about the weight of the 3P tent or the stove jack? The stove jack adds about 4 ounces when you add in the zipper and the stove jack itself.

The combined weight is more of interest to me as it allows me to compare it to usable size vs weight penalty when considering each option

 

[IBen]

Sounds like you get out! That's good feedback on the guylines. I'm curious why you like the higher guyouts? We put ours where they are to create more space along the bottom of the tent for head and foot room and because you can generally get more stretch lower down on a tent if you are pulling out/down than you can up high. But, I'm open to ideas and you've definitely spent some nights in the tents and I'd love your thoughts.

On the waterproof zippers, I've found that they aren't truly waterproof for that long, which is why a zipper flap is needed for serious weather. And once you have the zipper flap, the waterproof zipper seems unnecessary. The HMG tent doesn't have a zipper cover if I remember correctly.

No zipper cover on the hmg. Some water does come through but same with a zipper cover when wind is coming from the opposite direction of the zipper flap. the flap also gets caught in the zipper quite a bit when its wet. It’s usually a two hand operation. Thats why I ordered the hmg actually.

The guy lines being higher just gives more support to the upper half of the shelter in strong winds. Pulling the shelter down to the ground instead of out. It still does really well in the wind I had the 4p pitched for nearly a month in the same spot pretty exposed and the only damage it sustained was from ground squirrels. I do use shock cord on each tie out so the fabric is taunt but not overstretched If you are going to sell a guyline kit i’d recommend shock cord as being a part of it.

 

[camelcluch]

A stove with a single door would be nice. As long as the door is usable by the two people without getting into chapter 5 of a Tantric book.