New 109 ELDM vs 108 ELDM

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

succumbed "normally" for a moose.

N=1

I've went along on one moose hunt, my buddy was shooting a 30-06 with either 168ttsx or 180ttsx (yes now we are mismashing calibers and monos but the referenced hunters have also shot monos). <200yds halfway up the body just rear of the shoulder centerline (dead moose), I told him to shoot again which he did, I told him to shoot again and he looked at me saying "I thought those were good hits", "They were but a moose is big and its standing in a field right now and not a mile away in the brush, keep shooting it till it falls over", 3rd shot the head dipped and it wavered and fell. All 3 shots (with plenty of WALLOP ) were covered by a hand and took as long or longer than Steve's moose to die. That was fueled by the pause of him wanting to know why to shoot a 3rd time, just like Steve watched a bit before the 3rd shot. Mind you Steve's first shot he knew wasn't gonna drop it and was to make it stand up to promptly shoot it a second time, then waited a tad till the third shot. My buddy with his 30-06 (at closer range with BARNES and WALLOP) first shot was standing broadside with a second standing broadside prompt shot (don't forget that "BARNES WALLOP!!!!") and he still needed a 3rd shot.

But 30-06 at <200yd is also probably a "piss ant" cartridge too, 50BMG or bust! IKYK

 

[khuber84]

@wapitispokes keep in mind 2925 is very warm for a 16in barrel. The only way to run that sanely would be with heavy charges of rl26 or N560. Have a few friends running 18in bbls at 2850-2870 to stay away from psi signs with non crack powders.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

@wapitispokes keep in mind 2925 is very warm for a 16in barrel. The only way to run that sanely would be with heavy charges of rl26 or N560. Have a few friends running 18in bbls at 2850-2870 to stay away from psi signs with non crack powders.

Which is to say, 2850 with a 108 is still terminally effective past the distances any of those animals were shot at. @wapitispokes

Also, do not take load advice from Steve

 

[wapitispokes]

@wapitispokes keep in mind 2925 is very warm for a 16in barrel. The only way to run that sanely would be with heavy charges of rl26 or N560. Have a few friends running 18in bbls at 2850-2870 to stay away from psi signs with non crack powders.

I am very aware that load seems "surprisingly fast". I had to research and triple check the reported velocity because it seemed improbable to me. Not that I doubt Steve's veracity. He's a straight shooter (haha, get the pun). Anyway, I rewatched the videos. That is why I mentioned the velocity above. I was sort of flagging it but without trying to "call it out". I did not mention that the load seemed "hot" because I was trying to be polite to Steve and the gang who I have met, respect, and like. And it's not my load, or my gun and I did not name powders or grains (but I think Steve does at one point...).

N=1

I've went along on one moose hunt, my buddy was shooting a 30-06 with either 168ttsx or 180ttsx (yes now we are mismashing calibers and monos but the referenced hunters have also shot monos). <200yds halfway up the body just rear of the shoulder centerline (dead moose), I told him to shoot again which he did, I told him to shoot again and he looked at me saying "I thought those were good hits", "They were but a moose is big and its standing in a field right now and not a mile away in the brush, keep shooting it till it falls over", 3rd shot the head dipped and it wavered and fell. All 3 shots (with plenty of WALLOP ) were covered by a hand and took as long or longer than Steve's moose to die. That was fueled by the pause of him wanting to know why to shoot a 3rd time, just like Steve watched a bit before the 3rd shot. Mind you Steve's first shot he knew wasn't gonna drop it and was to make it stand up to promptly shoot it a second time, then waited a tad till the third shot. My buddy with his 30-06 (at closer range with BARNES and WALLOP) first shot was standing broadside with a second standing broadside prompt shot (don't forget that "BARNES WALLOP!!!!") and he still needed a 3rd shot.

But 30-06 at <200yd is also probably a "piss ant" cartridge too, 50BMG or bust! IKYK

Which is what I meant by "it died normally for a moose". I have an "impression" that it matters not how much "WALLOP" factor you have when shooting a moose in the lungs, it seems to take a long time for the lungs to fill up with blood and the moose to suffocate - or whatever is going on - so three good hits from a 6CM 108/9 ELDM or a .338 winchester magnum - it may not make any difference on a moose. So much for all the gun writers saying "wow, those Moose are tough, it takes an XYZ Whallop factor" to bring them down. But then you find out that it takes the same amount of time / or number of holes regardless of "Wallop factor". Nonetheless, it seems to be a good idea to keep shooting!! No point on giving it an incentive to get into a wet hole.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Which is what I meant by "it died normally for a moose". I have an "impression" that it matters not how much "WALLOP" factor you have when shooting a moose in the lungs, it seems to take a long time for the lungs to fill up with blood and the moose to suffocate - or whatever is going on - so three good hits from a 6CM 108/9 ELDM or a .338 winchester magnum - it may not make any difference on a moose. So much for all the gun writers saying "wow, those Moose are tough, it takes an XYZ Whallop factor" to bring them down. But then you find out that it takes the same amount of time / or number of holes regardless of "Wallop factor". Nonetheless, it seems to be a good idea to keep shooting!! No point on giving it an incentive to get into a wet hole.

I understood and was adding on example with BARNES and a classic WALLOP caliber at a distance (sub 200yd) no one could claim lacked the WALLOP for a moose that died basically exactly like Steve's. So in N=1, BARNES + WALLOP killed no more or less than Steve experienced as it takes a bit for the mass of a moose to loose blood pressure (IE not a central nervous system shot).

But maybe for those that need those hard quartering shots (shooting it in the ass because they lack ethics and will take any shot at their trophy) it makes a difference? "Barnes you can shoot'm in the ass if needed, <insert slowly spoken slogan here>!"

*Mind you I hunt with barnes a lot, I am just not a moron who wants to say I can take "hard quartering" shots with them to justify by poor ethics.

HAPPY FRIDAY / MEMORIAL DAY!

 

[Mark at EXO]

Later in the 2024 AK hunt, the videoagrpher shot a large moose at a pretty long range..I want to say 425 yards .....and hit the ball joint where the upper arm joins the scapula and just blew it away with massive internal damage behind it (as reported to me by an EXO member, but not visible on film). Then there was Steve's moose at closer range which succumbed "normally" for a moose. The "however" is that Mark Huesling's caribou shot with a 7 SAUM sure seemed to go down a lot fast than Steve's caribou - which is an unreliable sample set of two. I think the same result occurred with Mtn Goats. Again, small sample sets.

Bottom line, I'm impressed with the results from that combination of bullet, cartridge and impact velocity and will probably get a barrel set up for it.

Attached are some photos from the heavy bone damage on that moose with the 108.

Regarding my shot on the Caribou, I really contribute most, if not all, of that quick drop to shot placement. I was high shoulder...even biased a bit towards the shoulder/neck junction.

 

[Taudisio]

I posted a bunch from my experience with the 109 on a bear in the 6mm/243 for everything thread. Forgot about this one. Would have been around April 9th.

 

[BBob]

I posted a bunch from my experience with the 109 on a bear in the 6mm/243 for everything thread. Forgot about this one. Would have been around April 9th.

Post in thread '6mm /.243 hunting success on Big Game'

Apr 10, 2025

6 Creedmoor got it done this afternoon! My longest shot ever, and largest bear to date. We estimate he was around 350, with a 5” layer of fat on his back/rump. The 109eldm performed flawlessly. 523 yards behind the shoulder and a nice mushroom just under the hide mid body. Lung soup. I’ll have to weigh the bullet and I can take better photos of it after I get home from the butcher and taxidermist tomorrow.

• Taudisio

• 
• 

 

[wapitispokes]

Attached are some photos from the heavy bone damage on that moose with the 108.

Regarding my shot on the Caribou, I really contribute most, if not all, of that quick drop to shot placement. I was high shoulder...even biased a bit towards the shoulder/neck junction.

Mark - thanks for the follow up. The job you do on the podcast is top of the class!

 

[wapitispokes]

Attached are some photos from the heavy bone damage on that moose with the 108.

Regarding my shot on the Caribou, I really contribute most, if not all, of that quick drop to shot placement. I was high shoulder...even biased a bit towards the shoulder/neck junction.

I expected as much. Thanks for the response, thanks for sharing your knowledge and thanks for what you do and how you do it. It will be interesting to see how your new 6CM build works out for you.

 

[Lawnboi]

Can someone measure the base to ogive for me on the 108 and 109?

108s shoot well in my barrel but are loaded a hair deeper than ideal.

 

[T_Widdy]

Can someone measure the base to ogive for me on the 108 and 109?

108s shoot well in my barrel but are loaded a hair deeper than ideal.

108


109

 

[Big_wals]

Got 500 109s in the mail a couple days ago, had a chance to try them out tonight. 20 shots out of my Tikka 243. 1.8” overall. the shots outside of the bullseye were the last three, I probably should have waited and let my suppressor cool off as the mirage was getting pretty bad. The other 17 rounds were 1.4”.
2950 fps with 41.5 grains of H4350.

 

[SouthPaw]

The 109 is a great bullet. Consistency seems a bit better than the other eldms, perhaps because it's apparently a spinoff of the 110Atip. BC seems to be a solid .290 G7.