Need Help With Alternatives to Dehydrated Meals (Looking at Smoked Cheese & Hard Salami)

[rclouse79]

I do aussie bites from Costco for breakfast, tortilla, cheese, tuna pack, mayo and mustard for lunch, tortilla, salami, cheese, mayo and mustard for dinner.

 

[The Angelo Kid]

I took pemmican on a backpacking trip recently...never again. The consistency and flavor evoked a dramatic gag response for me and it was hard to choke any of it down. I bought mine from Pure Traditions, who markets it as ancient survival food. If my options were to eat pemmican and live, or not eat pemmican and die, I choose death. Starving children in Africa would spew that garbage out of their mouths and probably murder you. Maybe there are some other brands that are better, but I won't be going back to that well.

I was just looking at their website this morning. Definitely had thoughts of what you described running through my head.

 

[The Angelo Kid]

Half of my life hunting involved brining along a good amount of summer sausage, jerky, and pepperoni sticks - and any of the hard cheeses with low moisture and high salt survive room temps for extended periods. Just made my mouth water thinking about taking a bite out of a big chunk of Parmesan. Lol

The downside, for me, of both of those things is the salt content. I enjoy eating out and that amount of salt in most meals, but when I get into a lot of salty meat and cheese (or a big pepperoni pizza with extra sauce) for just one day my weight goes up 6-8 lbs from water retention and takes 3 to 4 days to work out of my system. Packing that extra water weight doesn’t bother me all that much, but being full of salt makes me pee twice as much during the night and I don’t care for the salty feeling in my mouth all day and night.

I still pack a small summer sausage, and enjoy a jerky/meat stick or two each day. A small baggie each day with a big pinch of Parmesan chips (Costco) makes a flavorful snack without overloading on salt.

With all the shelf stable at room temperature small packets of jelly, peanut butter, meat spreads and other stuff, there are more alternatives to dehydrated meals now than ever - the downside to most of it is we typically eat them in small amounts occasionally and having larger quantities isn’t as fun as it sounded at first.

I love breads and eat bagels regularly, but for some reason on the mountain I can barely stand them. I’ve packed a dozen bagels for a week long trip thinking I’d easily eat a few each day just for snacks - 10 of them were fed to the coyotes. I do enjoy crackers, especially the Chicken-in-a-biscuit, but the salt content is quite high in large amounts. A dense banana bread with a ton of walnuts is my go to - I can easily eat half my needed calories in banana bread each day, but it gets squished and whatnot easily, so I may limit it to one full loaf and snack on it the first few days. One year I packed a dozen donuts, but the bulk of a box to keep them from being squished was way too much of a hassle so that was a one time thing. Lol

I have experienced you bagel thing with the dehydrated meals. They don't always sit well with me but beyond that, not matter which ones I try I am having to force myself to eat them and that normally plays out after a couple of days and I end up just eating my snacks or other stuff I brought aong.

 

[The Angelo Kid]

Smoke your own cheddar. It’s easy. I do it in the winter when temps are cooler, but you could do it anytime. Get a smoke tube for your pellets and smoke it about an hour with some hickory or apple.

You can vacuum seal it and freeze it for later use. I just watch for sales on cheese and pick up a bunch at a time, then do one big batch.

Trader Joe’s has good hard salami. Summer sausage keeps well too so long as you use the full amount of curing salt n

Any advice on types of cheese that smoke better than others from your experience?

 

[Jason Snyder]

Any advice on types of cheese that smoke better than others from your experience?

I’ve only done medium cheddar. I bet white cheddar would be excellent.

Be careful not to overdo the smoke.

 

[NRA4LIFE]

I too have made many of my own dehydrated meals. Much easier on my lower unit than some of the commercial stuff, mostly MH. Just make sure you make the meals with VERY lean meat. Venison and trimmed chicken breasts are the best I've found. Stews, soups, chili, etc.

 

[Poser]

Nothing much to add to this on the direct food front, however, I found that I have to get extremely serious about my gut health in the backcountry. At home, I drink Kefir daily as well as apple cider vinegar throughout the day. In the backcountry, I take apple cider vinegar gels a couple of times a day, including first thing in the morning and just before bed and also take a probiotic supplement in the morning. In order to avoid a total gut shock, I start taking the probiotic several days to a week before the trip, depending on the duration of the trip. During hunting season, I'll often just take it from Sept through Nov since I'm out so much. Aged Gouda cheese is also a staple since it has probiotics (I usually just buy a whole 10 lbs wheel of aged Gouda for the Summer and Fall). Lastly, I take some single serving "Greens" powder supplements. Basically, give your gut some PH support throughout your trip and that change alone may solve your problem. It is at east worth an experiment. It may not be the meals themselves that are causing you issues, rather the lack of prebiotics that you are getting at home.

 

[wowzers]

I’ve only done medium cheddar. I bet white cheddar would be excellent.

Be careful not to overdo the smoke.

It is. Pepperjack is great too, especially on tacos. I like to wait until those two pound blocks go on sale. The smoke tube is the key.

 

[Jason Snyder]

You do it pretty much like I do. I try to keep it no thicker than an inch or so. What kind of wood do you use?

 

[wowzers]

Apple mostly. I haven’t experimented too much but like you say too much can get over powering so I feel like hickory or stronger might be too much. Tempted to try alder but I usually use it just for fish.

 

[*zap*]

Check into waxed cheese.

 

[Dos XX]

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[Dos XX]

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[The Angelo Kid]

Nothing much to add to this on the direct food front, however, I found that I have to get extremely serious about my gut health in the backcountry. At home, I drink Kefir daily as well as apple cider vinegar throughout the day. In the backcountry, I take apple cider vinegar gels a couple of times a day, including first thing in the morning and just before bed and also take a probiotic supplement in the morning. In order to avoid a total gut shock, I start taking the probiotic several days to a week before the trip, depending on the duration of the trip. During hunting season, I'll often just take it from Sept through Nov since I'm out so much. Aged Gouda cheese is also a staple since it has probiotics (I usually just buy a whole 10 lbs wheel of aged Gouda for the Summer and Fall). Lastly, I take some single serving "Greens" powder supplements. Basically, give your gut some PH support throughout your trip and that change alone may solve your problem. It is at east worth an experiment. It may not be the meals themselves that are causing you issues, rather the lack of prebiotics that you are getting at home.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[JR Greenhorn]

I know I'm a bit late to this thread, but this is a road I've been far down myself. This is a topic I enjoy, so I;m going to share a lot, Hopefully someone finds it uselful.

Unlike most guys here, most of my experience with this kind of thing has been trekking and cooking with a group, usually of 3-6, but more generally anywhere from 2-9 people. Also, I rather enjoy outdoor cooking, even/especially in difficult locations/conditions, so I personally don't lean hard towards the quick and easy.

My Boundary Waters group has learned from 10+ years of portage-extensive, 30-50+ mile, 4-5 day trips that 1/4-1/2 lb per day of jerky is about the limit anyone can eat for consecutive days, and that nobody eats more than 2 granola bars a day, every day. Another thing we have learned is that snack foods tend to be heavier or less weight efficient than "real" meals made from carefully selected ingredients. A good example of that was some instant (powdered) beef barley soup mix I used to buy. We'd add a baggie of shredded dried beef (either home-dehydrated or commercially bought) in a pot with water to boil up a quick lunch. It was lighter and more fulfilling than scarfing trail mix and jerky yet again.



Good call above on the cheese. Stick with hard cheeses and aged versions, if possible. Cheddar is good (although there is so much variety of cheddar these days). I love Asiago, and it packs well. It smells like dirty socks, but the flavor is great. Like Parmesan, it's better eaten with something than alone. Someone above mentioned cheese getting slimy. We're all so conditioned to sealing everything in plastic and putting it into the refrigerator, but in a backpack hard cheese will be happier if it can breathe. Cheesecloth is a thing for a reason, but a bandana works, too. Or just keep it in a plastic bag without sealing the top. Soft cheeses are better kept sealed. I tend to go smoked for soft cheese like mozzarella, but I don't bother with smoked for hard cheeses, or even for Colby Jack. Beware that some store-bought "smoked" cheeses aren't actually smoked, but just have liquid smoke flavor added.




Cured meats are easier than you'd think. I talked to a local meat shop about this years ago; the owner said he wouldn't be concerned with anything that's stuffed in a casing and smoked, at least not for roughly 5 days in a backpack in moderate temperatures with no ice but kept out of the sun. Many types of smoked or pre-cooked brats and brat-like sausages (like Polish varieties or andouille) will most likely be fine for several days. Usually spoiled red meats have an unmistakable smell, so it's pretty easy to be brave, and if there's any doubt, don't eat it. You could always leave it out try it at home, first.

It's easy to find pepperoni that's sold unrefrigerated. One year we carried a 1-lb stick of pepperoni rolled up inside a Ridge Rest pad for over 30 miles, eating a bit of it each day over a few days, paired with chunks of Asiago and Parmesan. Summer sausage is another easy one to find, although some are less smoked than others, while some are loaded with preservatives and never refrigerated. Summer sausage slices cut thick and pan fried, along with pancakes from a just-add-water mix makes a great trail breakfast if you can justify the time in camp. Pack some maple sugar, add a bit of water to and heat it in camp in a metal cup.

A real gem I found a while back was old-fashioned (think 1800s) salt-cured bacon. It has a shelf life of months, and can't be crushed or ruined in a pack, unless it gets and stays wet. You can't fry it or eat it like modern bacon; it has to be cooked into something, like a soup. I converted a red beans and rice recipe to be made deep in the wilderness that was based on salt cured bacon. It's a fair amount of work, but always a hit. The catch is you have to simmer it for 3 hours, which isn't as bad as it sounds if you plan your evening in camp around it.


In that same vein, I have packed along plain old dry beans several times. Of course, these too will last for months as long as they are dry, and they are very light and easy to pack. The catch with them is you have to soak them for 8 hours before simmering them for 1-3 hours (depending on the variety). Again, with a solid plan it's not as bad as it sounds. A wide-mouth Nalgene works great for soaking beans all day, even when on the move, and you can use the bottle for drinking water again the next day. I've packed along soaking kidney beans, black beans, and even HamBeen's brand 15-bean soup this way. I've also tried it in large zip-top bags, which I don't recommend for trekking, but it would work for soaking while hanging in a bear bag in a base camp all day.




In the US, federal regulations require the natural membrane to be scrubbed away from eggs to be sold in US grocery stores. In most of the rest of the world, eggs are sold with that membrane intact. Eggs with the membrane can sit out at room temp for days, but once the membrane is removed, they must be refrigerated. To get around this in the US, it's not difficult in most places these days to find "farm fresh" eggs for sale (usually it's actually hobbyists with backyard chickens). These will last for days at normal room temperature. Of course packing whole eggs inside a backpack is a whole other issue. I've bought some of those super-expensive organic "free range" (don't get me started) premium eggs in the grocery store a few times just to get the clear plastic container they came in. It's somewhere in between the typical Styrofoam or paper cartons, and those heavy hard plastic egg cases Amazon and the camping stores sell.

An alternative for packing fresh, whole eggs is to crack them into a disposable water bottle (or any other kind of bottle) with a funnel, and carry them as liquid. Depending on ambient temps, this might be a first-day-only thing, or they might be fine until the third day or longer. Like red meat, eggs are usually pretty easy to tell when they've gone bad, too. I know a local Boy Scout troop who dumps all the ingredients for an egg bake (a.k.a. egg strata), which generally includes eggs, milk, shredded cheese, browned ground sausage, and croutons, into an empty milk jug with a funnel. They bake it in a Dutch oven on the last morning of a long weekend trip. I've done the same thing, but with a smaller batch carefully kept in a large zip-top bag, and I've found a more backpackable approach than a Dutch oven. We haven't found a heartier camp breakfast.

When it comes to dry eggs, I actually like Mountain House's Scrambled Eggs with Bacon, or the Breakfast Skillets pouches that have peppers, too. I find these way easier to come out right when cooked compared to other dehydrated egg options. My favorite way to prepare them is in breakfast burritos. Before starting the MH pouch, soak and then fry instant hashbrowns. The Idahoan brand pouches were the best, but I can't find them anymore. The Hungry Jack cartons work too. You don't want to fry the hashbrowns until crunchy, but just until cooked through and soft. Then, pour the MH eggs (which should be about done in the pouch by now) over the hashbrowns in the pan, to boil off the excess water. Load up a tortilla, shred some block cheese over the to, and of course single-serving salsa packets are everywhere these days.

 

[JR Greenhorn]

Sous vide pairs great with backcountry cooking. I have a friend who does competition barbecue. He's cooked and vacuum sealed brisket and pork shoulder for me to carry into the woods. Keep it frozen as long as you can (e.g. cooler, hotel fridge freezer, etc.), then wrap tightly in clothes or a shemagh and keep it buried in your pack (or stick it in your small packable soft cooler with your other cold/cool food items). I usually try to use it within 24 hours of the last traces of frozen disappearing. However, considering it's pre-cooked/smoked, it'd probably be just fine for 48 hours. Anyway, you just need a big enough pot to immerse the vacuum-sealed pouch in. Add a few rocks to keep it off the bottom, and fill with approximately room temperature (not necessarily ambient or as-found temperature) water, then put the pot over medium-low heat from a camp stove or campfire. You want it to take at least 30-60 minutes under that slow heat before the water boils, and as soon as the water does start to boil, take it off the heat.



Incidentally, No Name brand steaks tend to come sealed in individual plastic pouches also. These are a great way to pack in raw beef that's ready to go, as easy as grabbing a box from the grocery store. Alternately, my friend pre-cuts, marinates and freezes backstraps or tenderloins from last year's deer, and we pack those in. Either way, he cuts green sticks to kebab the steaks and sears them over a campfire on a metal grate. In our experience, the steaks are often still partially frozen the first night in, so instead we plan steaks for the second night, and BBQ brisket or pork the third night. These meats are all heavy wet weight of course, but they sure are welcome those first few nights of a longer trip, and once eaten you're just left with some plastic bags or FoodSaver pouches to pack out.




If you can find a good way to pack in meat for your main entrée, many options for sides to make it a real meal are pretty easy. Mountain House used to make Cut Green Beans that were fantastic as a side, but they're long gone now. Sometimes you can find them in bulk from other freeze-dried brands. MH had some sort of corn and peppers thing a while back, too. I think it was intended to be a vegetarian burrito filling, but it made a good side dish (or a mix-in). I haven't seen it for years, but other brands still have some similar options.

Instant mashed potatoes are pretty decent and ubiquitous these days. I like grits, and instant grits are about is easy as it gets. Some other favorites for us are instant (or old-fashioned hard-way) rice. Uncle Ben's, Zatarain's or Rice-a-Roni brands of instant rice have all been carried in by us. I do good old long grain brown rice for my red beans and rice, although cooking rice the old fashioned way can be surprisingly difficult, especially in camp. Another favorite of ours is Wild Blend rice. For me, the blend seems to be a bit more forgiving to cook than single-variety white or brown rice. We used to get the Lundberg brand, but several are available these days. The nutty flavor of Wild Blend rice goes equally well with steaks or with any fish we happen to catch. A former coworker used to make dehydrated Risengrøt (Norwegian rice pudding) from a recipe he found on a backpacking website, which makes a good breakfast or desert to add some variety.





Many fresh/raw vegetables survive being backpacked very well, and may last longer than you'd expect. Whether bruising, discoloring or turning to mush, it's pretty easy to see when fresh vegetables have gone bad. Most aren't very weight efficient, but you can't beat real, fresh foods if you can work them into your food plan. A mix of fresh, instant and freeze-dried foods adds welcome variety on a trip. If you're serious enough about your pack weight, you have food listed in your weight spreadsheet just like all the rest of your gear, and you know the weight of each meal and work it into the plans for appropriate days. I think that can pair well with backpack hunting, where you pack in a bit heavy on food, but you're down to nearly your base weight by the time you pack out camp and your harvested meat.

Back to fresh vegetables, asparagus is a favorite of ours, especially with steak and (instant) mashed potatoes. Coat with oil, optionally season, and grill it over the same fire that made the steaks, while those rest. Other fresh vegetables we've packed in include potatoes, zucchini, radishes, carrots and parsnips. Some are more versatile than others, but all pack pretty well. Onions, celery and bell peppers (the holy trinity) are more difficult to pack, but they are relatively light, very versatile, and they're usually still useable if they get crushed a bit. The best thing about most fresh vegetables is there is often little to no waste.

Many vegetables used as recipe ingredients can be substituted with dry versions for better weight, pack space and shelf life. There are several options in the spice bottles at your grocery store. This is a great way to convert heavy or "wet" ingredients in a normal recipe to something more pack-in friendly. Look online for substitution ratios. For example, it's 3 tablespoons of minced onion for every 1/2 cup of fresh chopped onion, or 2 tablespoons of celery flakes to 1/4 cup chopped celery. However, watch the prices in the spice aisle. Those little bottles are expensive, and it may be cheaper to buy freeze-dried or dehydrated alternatives more in bulk.





An example meal of mine that is stable for days, light in the pack, quick to prepare, and employs several of these ideas is my version of camp tacos. I use Mountain House Diced Beef, measured out and repackaged from the #10 can (prices on the cans vary a lot; watch for deals over time). Taco seasoning could be the store-bought pouch, but I make my own from an online recipe, substituting McCormick minced onion and garlic for the powder versions to give more texture. If I had planned to have a fresh green pepper along for another meal, I'll save some of it for this one. Finally, I pick up a box of Rice-a-Roni Mexican rice (don't trust the box in your pack--repackage it), a block of cheese to shred, and of course some small tortillas (which I would have for breakfast burritos anyway). To stretch it for a larger group, I'll add dried black beans, although they add some planning and prep complexity. I've never used pre-cooked dehydrated beans, but they would better match the quickness and convenience of the other ingredients.




Take a slow, browsing trip to the grocery store sometime with camp meals for an upcoming trip in mind, and you'll be surprised how many options and ideas you may find. Beyond the regular grocery store, if your area has a Mexican, Italian, or Indian market (or whatever ethnicity is in your area), you'll likely find some really good packable camp meal options, or at least ingredients. A lot of historical foods from many different cultures were based on long shelf life with no refrigeration; the trick is finding the ones that don't take a day (or more) to prep before eating, and are based on ingredients you can still get.

One thing I've meant to try for years but haven't yet is a pack-into-camp version of old fashioned Texas brick chili. Melting a packed-along brick of suet, dried beef and spices in a pot in camp seems to make as much sense now as it did 200 years ago. Of course, I'm not from Texas, so I would have to add dried beans, too.

 

[The Angelo Kid]

Sous vide pairs great with backcountry cooking. I have a friend who does competition barbecue. He's cooked and vacuum sealed brisket and pork shoulder for me to carry into the woods. Keep it frozen as long as you can (e.g. cooler, hotel fridge freezer, etc.), then wrap tightly in clothes or a shemagh and keep it buried in your pack (or stick it in your small packable soft cooler with your other cold/cool food items). I usually try to use it within 24 hours of the last traces of frozen disappearing. However, considering it's pre-cooked/smoked, it'd probably be just fine for 48 hours. Anyway, you just need a big enough pot to immerse the vacuum-sealed pouch in. Add a few rocks to keep it off the bottom, and fill with approximately room temperature (not necessarily ambient or as-found temperature) water, then put the pot over medium-low heat from a camp stove or campfire. You want it to take at least 30-60 minutes under that slow heat before the water boils, and as soon as the water does start to boil, take it off the heat.



Incidentally, No Name brand steaks tend to come sealed in individual plastic pouches also. These are a great way to pack in raw beef that's ready to go, as easy as grabbing a box from the grocery store. Alternately, my friend pre-cuts, marinates and freezes backstraps or tenderloins from last year's deer, and we pack those in. Either way, he cuts green sticks to kebab the steaks and sears them over a campfire on a metal grate. In our experience, the steaks are often still partially frozen the first night in, so instead we plan steaks for the second night, and BBQ brisket or pork the third night. These meats are all heavy wet weight of course, but they sure are welcome those first few nights of a longer trip, and once eaten you're just left with some plastic bags or FoodSaver pouches to pack out.




If you can find a good way to pack in meat for your main entrée, many options for sides to make it a real meal are pretty easy. Mountain House used to make Cut Green Beans that were fantastic as a side, but they're long gone now. Sometimes you can find them in bulk from other freeze-dried brands. MH had some sort of corn and peppers thing a while back, too. I think it was intended to be a vegetarian burrito filling, but it made a good side dish (or a mix-in). I haven't seen it for years, but other brands still have some similar options.

Instant mashed potatoes are pretty decent and ubiquitous these days. I like grits, and instant grits are about is easy as it gets. Some other favorites for us are instant (or old-fashioned hard-way) rice. Uncle Ben's, Zatarain's or Rice-a-Roni brands of instant rice have all been carried in by us. I do good old long grain brown rice for my red beans and rice, although cooking rice the old fashioned way can be surprisingly difficult, especially in camp. Another favorite of ours is Wild Blend rice. For me, the blend seems to be a bit more forgiving to cook than single-variety white or brown rice. We used to get the Lundberg brand, but several are available these days. The nutty flavor of Wild Blend rice goes equally well with steaks or with any fish we happen to catch. A former coworker used to make dehydrated Risengrøt (Norwegian rice pudding) from a recipe he found on a backpacking website, which makes a good breakfast or desert to add some variety.





Many fresh/raw vegetables survive being backpacked very well, and may last longer than you'd expect. Whether bruising, discoloring or turning to mush, it's pretty easy to see when fresh vegetables have gone bad. Most aren't very weight efficient, but you can't beat real, fresh foods if you can work them into your food plan. A mix of fresh, instant and freeze-dried foods adds welcome variety on a trip. If you're serious enough about your pack weight, you have food listed in your weight spreadsheet just like all the rest of your gear, and you know the weight of each meal and work it into the plans for appropriate days. I think that can pair well with backpack hunting, where you pack in a bit heavy on food, but you're down to nearly your base weight by the time you pack out camp and your harvested meat.

Back to fresh vegetables, asparagus is a favorite of ours, especially with steak and (instant) mashed potatoes. Coat with oil, optionally season, and grill it over the same fire that made the steaks, while those rest. Other fresh vegetables we've packed in include potatoes, zucchini, radishes, carrots and parsnips. Some are more versatile than others, but all pack pretty well. Onions, celery and bell peppers (the holy trinity) are more difficult to pack, but they are relatively light, very versatile, and they're usually still useable if they get crushed a bit. The best thing about most fresh vegetables is there is often little to no waste.

Many vegetables used as recipe ingredients can be substituted with dry versions for better weight, pack space and shelf life. There are several options in the spice bottles at your grocery store. This is a great way to convert heavy or "wet" ingredients in a normal recipe to something more pack-in friendly. Look online for substitution ratios. For example, it's 3 tablespoons of minced onion for every 1/2 cup of fresh chopped onion, or 2 tablespoons of celery flakes to 1/4 cup chopped celery. However, watch the prices in the spice aisle. Those little bottles are expensive, and it may be cheaper to buy freeze-dried or dehydrated alternatives more in bulk.





An example meal of mine that is stable for days, light in the pack, quick to prepare, and employs several of these ideas is my version of camp tacos. I use Mountain House Diced Beef, measured out and repackaged from the #10 can (prices on the cans vary a lot; watch for deals over time). Taco seasoning could be the store-bought pouch, but I make my own from an online recipe, substituting McCormick minced onion and garlic for the powder versions to give more texture. If I had planned to have a fresh green pepper along for another meal, I'll save some of it for this one. Finally, I pick up a box of Rice-a-Roni Mexican rice (don't trust the box in your pack--repackage it), a block of cheese to shred, and of course some small tortillas (which I would have for breakfast burritos anyway). To stretch it for a larger group, I'll add dried black beans, although they add some planning and prep complexity. I've never used pre-cooked dehydrated beans, but they would better match the quickness and convenience of the other ingredients.




Take a slow, browsing trip to the grocery store sometime with camp meals for an upcoming trip in mind, and you'll be surprised how many options and ideas you may find. Beyond the regular grocery store, if your area has a Mexican, Italian, or Indian market (or whatever ethnicity is in your area), you'll likely find some really good packable camp meal options, or at least ingredients. A lot of historical foods from many different cultures were based on long shelf life with no refrigeration; the trick is finding the ones that don't take a day (or more) to prep before eating, and are based on ingredients you can still get.

One thing I've meant to try for years but haven't yet is a pack-into-camp version of old fashioned Texas brick chili. Melting a packed-along brick of suet, dried beef and spices in a pot in camp seems to make as much sense now as it did 200 years ago. Of course, I'm not from Texas, so I would have to add dried beans, too.

Thanks for all the information. I look forward to reading through it.

 

[Bdmunro]

Consider peanut butter and bacon sandwiches between slices of French bread. That is a ton of calories. A week before hitting the back country I would make a bunch (wrap them in wax paper) then put them in the freezer. On the trail they would keep for a long time and give a heap of energy.

Landjägers are very good too.