Need advice. Land in Lincoln county MT?

[moab]

I've been looking at land in Lincoln county MT for some time. Years actually. I have a good idea of what's being offered and the market. But wondering when prices might come back down to what they were even three years ago? I know that requires a miracle. And someone that can see into the future.

Hoping to find something backed up to state or federal land. 20 to 40 acres. Maybe more if I can afford it. One road in or at least no trafficked roads going thru it. Timber. Off grid is fine. Something with a house is fine. But I'm not opposed to raw land and having a modular home put in it. I also know I will have to have a road built and access.

I think I understand water rights in MT. But am uneducated about mineral rights. Like if I don't buy them. Can the owner come mine on my land?

I have a cousin in Libby. So at least some connection to the area. Although she is getting on the older side. Not an expert on land. But very helpful none the less. I'm from a small mountain logging town in WA. But can't escape the politics and high cost of real estate. My father and grandfather knew the land well. What was good. What to avoid. Where to build. We looked at many properties in the mountains of WA. My father was a surveyor for the Forest Service. And both were hardcore outdoorsman. But they are both deceased now. And between the gun issues and real estate prices being insane. (I should have bought everything I was going to buy 20 yrs ago!). We are moving to better country.

What should I be avoiding or looking for? That's particular to Lincoln county and MT? If I bought a larger tract is having it logged an option to offset costs?

What else am I not asking that I should be?

 

[hoot504]

I think I understand water rights in MT. But am uneducated about mineral rights. Like if I don't buy them. Can the owner come mine on my land?

I believe the answer to this is yes.

 

[Marshfly]

Land prices in Montana are not going down. They just aren't.

 

[P Carter]

Not legal advice, but on the mineral rights question, yes, if the property has mineral rights that belong to someone, and you don't buy the mineral rights, the owner of the mineral rights will be able to come on your property and use the surface as reasonably necessary to exercise the rights associated with the mineral rights, including exploring, extracting, etc. Each state differs on the extent to which the mineral-rights owner must accomodate the surface-right owner. Reserved mineral rights should come up on title. If they do, you'll want to get a Montana lawyer to explain the implications.

 

[Legend]

You will want to make sure the land has not been impacted by the asbestos mining. Long sad story in libby.

And you might need some Bigfoot insurance. No doubt at least a few live in Lincoln County.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Make sure you will own the land "in fee simple" as part of your offer.

 

[Pony Soldier]

Most areas are closed to filing surface water rights. Those would have to come with the property. Groundwater is open for domestic use (a well) and I think you can file for up to 35 gpm but that depends on the source area.

Mineral rights usually come with the property but they can be severed and yes the mineral rights can mine your land without your permission but they have to compensate you for your loss of your surface estate. I have seen minerals split in whole, by commodity and even for a defined verticle distance. It should show up on the title search on the land.

I don't remember much split estate in Lincoln co but there is a lot in sw montana and eastern montana. Mostly from the homestead act. That severed the mineral rights where they remained with the BLM when the surface was homesteaded.

As far as where minerals have historically found, contact the Mt Bureau of Mines and Geology and ask for Willis Johns report on Flathead and Lincoln co. Also ask for access to their groundwater database. It will provide detailed information on the location of nearby wells, how much water they produce and how deep the well are among other things.

They also have detailed geologic maps of any area you are interested in.

I haven't worked up there for a while but I kind of liked the bench above Libby to the south. There are some nice places on either side of the river toward Happy's Inn.

I wouldn't overlook some of the country around Troy or on the road toward Noxon.

I don't know how the migration factor has affected that country. Kalispel has been kind flooded and of course Bozeman is out of control and reason.

Another issue you should pay attention to is that north of Thompson Falls is a snow belt that is a continuation of Priest River, Sandpoint and Newport Wash.

Hope that helps!

 

[Pony Soldier]

A seperate note: There wasn't an asbestos mine in Libby. There was a vermiculite mine that had asbestiform minerals in the form of fine grained tremelite minerals. Professionally I think the minerals are related to the syanite porphry stocks that are located northeast and southeast of Libby. Consequently there is a higher risk of exposure from the dust in the gravels downstream from the source area.

Just a point of clarification.

 

[Team4LongGun]

Hoping to find something backed up to state or federal land. 20 to 40 acres. Maybe more if I can afford it. One road in or at least no trafficked roads going thru it.

So is everyone else. There are a few left, all of them upwards of 1 million.

What should I be avoiding or looking for? That's particular to Lincoln county and MT? If I bought a larger tract is having it logged an option to offset costs?

My buddy is a logger. The days of buying land that has timber value are about gone, as the sellers will log it prior to selling. Even then, the prices aren’t that much. I had a section logged last year and broke even with the cost of logging operations, trucking to mill etc.
In Lincoln county.

 

[moab]

Most areas are closed to filing surface water rights. Those would have to come with the property. Groundwater is open for domestic use (a well) and I think you can file for up to 35 gpm but that depends on the source area.

Thank you for your generous response. Really appreciate it.

How often are surface water rights offered as part of a sale? I understand that to mean that if someone upstream, has the rights, and say needs the water for say cattle or mining, they can run the creek/stream dry or to a small trickle as it travels through your land?

Mineral rights usually come with the property but they can be severed and yes the mineral rights can mine your land without your permission but they have to compensate you for your loss of your surface estate. I have seen minerals split in whole, by commodity and even for a defined verticle distance. It should show up on the title search on the land.

I don't remember much split estate in Lincoln co but there is a lot in sw montana and eastern montana. Mostly from the homestead act. That severed the mineral rights where they remained with the BLM when the surface was homesteaded.

As far as where minerals have historically found, contact the Mt Bureau of Mines and Geology and ask for Willis Johns report on Flathead and Lincoln co. Also ask for access to their groundwater database. It will provide detailed information on the location of nearby wells, how much water they produce and how deep the well are among other things.

They also have detailed geologic maps of any area you are interested in.

Thank you again. I've done this type of research at the county level in various counties in WA. Excellent resources. Glad to hear similar is available in MT.

Also happy to hear mineral rights are usually part of the sale. But something I imagine I need to check for.

I haven't worked up there for a while but I kind of liked the bench above Libby to the south. There are some nice places on either side of the river toward Happy's Inn.

I wouldn't overlook some of the country around Troy or on the road toward Noxon.

I regularly search and keep up to date on all properties for sale in those areas. Good to know.

I don't bother limiting access to Libby. Meaning worrying about being close. As I assume a monthly or bimonthly trip to Kalispell is necessary for provisions. I've never asked my cousin. I just assume Libby is a very small town.

I have a month or two trip planned this summer to the area. I want to explore. And then rent there for at least 6 months. Just to make sure a permeant move is a wise one for us.

But if a perfect place comes up. We are very ready to commit. It may sound simplistic. But I am no longer willing to give up my firearms and other rights. And I'm simply not able to invest in these insane real estate prices. A home in a tiny town with no acreage, built in the 40s, that I could have bought for 100k is now half a million dollars. And this is over two hours outside of Seattle with good traffic. Blows my mind. I should have bought my grandparents place when offered. But it would not have changed the political climate.

I don't know how the migration factor has affected that country. Kalispel has been kind flooded and of course Bozeman is out of control and reason.

Ya. This is another reason I want to be as far out as possible. I have no intention of moving this far away. Just to end up with neighbors. And a similar "climate".

Another issue you should pay attention to is that north of Thompson Falls is a snow belt that is a continuation of Priest River, Sandpoint and Newport Wash.

This is the type of information I am looking for. There must be an updated annual snow fall map somewhere. Thank you. I assume I will need an old snow plow truck. But there is a difference between a reasonable amount of snow and unreasonable. Lol.

Hope that helps!

Thank you again. This really does help. Thank you to all of you.

 

[moab]

So is everyone else. There are a few left, all of them upwards of 1 million.

My buddy is a logger. The days of buying land that has timber value are about gone, as the sellers will log it prior to selling. Even then, the prices aren’t that much. I had a section logged last year and broke even with the cost of logging operations, trucking to mill etc.
In Lincoln county.

Thank you.

I was a Corporal in a STA platoon at Camp Pendleton (San Mateo) in the early 80s. My father was stationed out of Los Pulgas (Camp Pendleton) during Vietnam. And my grandfather served in the Marine Corps in the Pacific during WWII.

Nice to meet you.

 

[Team4LongGun]

Right on Brother! Small community of ours.

 

[mtnbiker208]

have you ever been in lincoln county montana?
what ever you do, don't buy sight unseen.

 

[Team4LongGun]

Not sure if that is a compliment or not….

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Land prices in Montana are not going down. They just aren't.

I’m not so sure. We shall see with these interest rates.

 

[Billinsd]

And you might need some Bigfoot insurance. No doubt at least a few live in Lincoln County.

Do they get into mischief a lot? Can you get depredation tags in Montana, how about putting them into a corral and charge people to see them?

 

[Marshfly]

I’m not so sure. We shall see with these interest rates.

These are normal interest rates. What we had was abnormally low. That said, prices for parcels such as the OP is looking for are not decreasing. Zero chance. Lots of cash buyers out there.

 

[nodakian]

If you like sunshine between November and March, Libby may not be a good choice.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

These are normal interest rates. What we had was abnormally low. That said, prices for parcels such as the OP is looking for are not decreasing. Zero chance. Lots of cash buyers out there.

Right. Well…what you call normal interest rates coupled with the way over inflated home prices seems like a ticking time bomb to me. I don’t have a crystal ball, but my gut tells me there’s a hard reset coming. I’ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Billinsd]

And you might need some Bigfoot insurance. No doubt at least a few live in Lincoln County.

Looks looks like there’s lots of um!!

Sasquatch warning - Libby News, Montana