Neck tension and the placebo effect

[TaperPin]

My opinion is neck tension is only helpful if the load accuracy can be fine tuned. If the gun isn’t very accurate and it’s impossible to see minor changes through the static, then save your time and money for a new barrel.

My most accurate rifle used an undersized expansion ball - at least .003” was sanded off the diameter to smooth out the machining marks. I’ve heard more than one guy who has experimented with neck tension settle into something on the high end for heavy drag. Single loaded rounds might shoot fine with minimal tension, but reliable magazine fed rounds have to have at least a moderate amount of tension.

 

[BallisticJesus]

What is this nice sleek-looking belted case? View attachment 802254

A 1953 all original Remington model 721 in .300H&H (165gr Nosler Partition).

 

[TaperPin]

A 1953 all original Remington model 721 in .300H&H (165gr Nosler Partition).

View attachment 802267View attachment 802268

Very nice! That’s a keeper - both the classic cartridge and classic rifle - for a factory barrel that accuracy is exceptional.

I’ll love to eventually get a 300 H&H barrel for my old Remington - original 721 barrels are quite valuable and I wouldn’t trust they would shoot as well as yours, so it will probably have to be a new barrel.

 

[Flyjunky]

It’s always entertaining reading threads like these. As always, the correct answer is maybe it does or maybe it doesn’t IN YOUR RIFLE. The only way to know is to test it yourself for your setup.

For every person who posts a quote from some professional shooter who says it doesn’t matter there are other professional shooters who say it does.

It’s all black magic and if you feel it does or doesn’t work, you’re probably correct.

 

[BallisticJesus]

What's worse, guys who have a 1/4 MOA rifle because it shot a 1/4 MOA 3 shot group or guys who have a 2.6 SD load because that's what it was with 3 shots?

I can tell you what is comical about your reply. A guy has an already proven load. States clearly in his post that the group was shot just to confirm zero. The group was shot cold bore to boot .then someone posts all spun off tangent, goes off the rails and gets his stuff in a knot. Sniveling about 3 shots and SD’s.

What next? A conversation on barrel life?

Fact’s :

The load is already proven.

The group is tight.

SD and ES are tight.

You should try harder, you aren’t what you think you are.

 

[sndmn11]

For every person who posts a quote from some professional shooter who says it doesn’t matter there are other professional shooters who say it does.

For someone to objectively conclude that it matters, wouldn't they have a vast amount of testing in order to arrive there?

I would be interested to read through those tests.

 

[Flyjunky]

For someone to objectively conclude that it matters, wouldn't they have a vast amount of testing in order to arrive there?

I would be interested to read through those tests.

Go listen to the short range benchrest guys who measure groups in hundredths of an inch, guys who change loads when the humidity changes between matches, and who shoot a lot.

A quote from a professional shooter was used to say neck tension doesn’t matter and I was pointing out I could find the exact opposite.

 

[sndmn11]

A quote from a professional shooter was used to say neck tension doesn’t matter and I was pointing out I could find the exact opposite.

That's what I'm asking to read; can you share it?

 

[Wrench]

As hunters we will often load 50 or more rounds pre season and may only shoot a small percentage of those and leave the rest. If you are like many, you may have multiple rifles and it might be months or years before you shoot that rifle again.

"Cold welding" is a term that is used when the bullet bonds to the case. I have personally had this happen using Bertram 300wsm brass which was already tight.

You tell me, will this affect SD or accuracy?

The bullet is deformed after trying to pull it.

 

[FoggyScope]

I can tell you what is comical about your reply. A guy has an already proven load. States clearly in his post that the group was shot just to confirm zero. The group was shot cold bore to boot .then someone posts all spun off tangent, goes off the rails and gets his stuff in a knot. Sniveling about 3 shots and SD’s.

What next? A conversation on barrel life?

Fact’s :

The load is already proven.

The group is tight.

SD and ES are tight.

You should try harder, you aren’t what you think you are.

You are what you think you are either. Posting 3 shot groups and SDs is blowing smoke up your own A... Wind Gypsy made a good point that worrying/trying to find data in 3 shots is useless. Statistics is a professional field, not some silly idea. Many many people just like to post cherry picked 3 shots with lowest numbers they every have seen, which does nothing for anyone else. If you claim your group, SD and ES are "tight" thats great, but most of us have different definitions of that stuff, and some of us have unrealistic expectations and like to leave out shots or choose this group and not that one. When your data to prove it is 3 shots its not very good proof. Seeing trends in 3 data points isnt possible, you just see the up and down not the average.

3 shot groups definitely can tell you something for yourself as an indicator as long as you then back it up with further testing. But If youre trying to prove a point these days, theres now a big group of people who have taken time to get their heads around this and wont accept your 3 or 5 shot groups as proof of anything.

I have personally worked on multiple guns that will shoot a great 3 or 5 shot group/SD and then shot #4 or 6 goes out of that by a large margin. Cold bore hot bore whatever.

Sometimes you gotta check your ego. No ones saying your guns dont shoot. Just saying if you want to prove a point you cant prove anything with 3 shot groups these days. Try harder.

 

[BallisticJesus]

You are what you think you are either. Posting 3 shot groups and SDs is blowing smoke up your own A... Wind Gypsy made a good point that worrying/trying to find data in 3 shots is useless. Statistics is a professional field, not some silly idea. Many many people just like to post cherry picked 3 shots with lowest numbers they every have seen, which does nothing for anyone else. If you claim your group, SD and ES are "tight" thats great, but most of us have different definitions of that stuff, and some of us have unrealistic expectations and like to leave out shots or choose this group and not that one. When your data to prove it is 3 shots its not very good proof. Seeing trends in 3 data points isnt possible, you just see the up and down not the average.

3 shot groups definitely can tell you something for yourself as an indicator as long as you then back it up with further testing. But If youre trying to prove a point these days, theres now a big group of people who have taken time to get their heads around this and wont accept your 3 or 5 shot groups as proof of anything.

I have personally worked on multiple guns that will shoot a great 3 or 5 shot group/SD and then shot #4 or 6 goes out of that by a large margin. Cold bore hot bore whatever.

Sometimes you gotta check your ego. No ones saying your guns dont shoot. Just saying if you want to prove a point you cant prove anything with 3 shot groups these days. Try harder.

You can’t make yourself look any worse than you already do. Simply by doing your best.

 

[gbflyer]

I’ve fooled with it shooting short range BR. I was never good enough to tell a difference. Usually sized a neck -.003 of bullet diameter figuring on a .001 rebound or .002 of grip. This is a little light for field conditions in my opinion, liking at least .004 of grip. I’ve seen recoil shorten COAL in the magazine, compressed loads push the bullet forward, and also bullets stuck in the rifling when unloading with an action full of powder. That’s a pain out in the woods.

 

[Pharmseller]

As hunters we will often load 50 or more rounds pre season and may only shoot a small percentage of those and leave the rest. If you are like many, you may have multiple rifles and it might be months or years before you shoot that rifle again.

"Cold welding" is a term that is used when the bullet bonds to the case. I have personally had this happen using Bertram 300wsm brass which was already tight.

You tell me, will this affect SD or accuracy?

The bullet is deformed after trying to pull it. View attachment 802617

I don’t load in advance and I shoot my .223s a lot, no time for cold welding.

Speaking of which, guys who know A LOT more than I do recommend seating slightly deeper if you suspect cold weld. The deeper seating breaks the weld.



P

 

[wind gypsy]

I can tell you what is comical about your reply. A guy has an already proven load. States clearly in his post that the group was shot just to confirm zero. The group was shot cold bore to boot .then someone posts all spun off tangent, goes off the rails and gets his stuff in a knot. Sniveling about 3 shots and SD’s.

What next? A conversation on barrel life?

Fact’s :

The load is already proven.

The group is tight.

SD and ES are tight.

You should try harder, you aren’t what you think you are.

Not sure if you were drinking or what. My rudely crafted post was in reference to a 3 shot Chrono readout that has been posted in at least 3 threads. If i'm going to say a load is 1/4 MOA or 2.4 SD a single 3 shot result doesn't make it such. I could have stated as much with more tact and maybe @Article 4 would have elaborated with his more in-depth results since that picture was taken if he felt like it.

 

[BallisticJesus]

Not sure if you were drinking or what. My rudely crafted post was in reference to a 3 shot Chrono readout that has been posted in at least 3 threads. If i'm going to say a load is 1/4 MOA or 2.4 SD a single 3 shot result doesn't make it such. I could have stated as much with more tact and maybe @Article 4 would have elaborated with his more in-depth results since that picture was taken if he felt like it.

Blah, blah , blah. Let it go.