My side of the BlackOvis/Camofire story - Podcast and Q&A

[mntnguide]

When Muley Freak Eric was convicted the 2nd time, and what I came to believe to be wrongly so, it was certainly a step back moment for me and the business association. There was not a contractual obligation in place so the decision was certainly made by the team, but ultimately I was the one responsible for keeping the brand in the store.

The saying "where there's smoke there's fire" is not lost on me. I get it, we have all made mistakes, but the same style of mistake, TWICE? Hard to stomach, hard to believe.

He is not Innocent of anything. He pleaded guilty behind closed doors with lawyers months later as shown in court records, cause he is a habitual lying POS. He is a weasel and exactly whats wrong with the hunting industry, and you supported his cause. I never spent another cent with your companies after that just like many people.

 

[Marbles]

The saying "where there's smoke there's fire" is not lost on me. I get it, we have all made mistakes, but the same style of mistake, TWICE? Hard to stomach, hard to believe.

People make the same mistake with bad consequences way more than twice quite frequently. It is exceptionally easy to believe.

MF appears to be a manipulator, the only way for an honest person to come out ok when dealing with the morass of lies such people create is to refuse to step into it. Once in, it is not surprising that good people miss the reality.

 

[Bannedinshortorder!]

I just checked out MF's website.
It doesn't say anything about him ever being in trouble.

 

[Bachto]

I just checked out MF's website.
It doesn't say anything about him ever being in trouble.

I hope this is sarcasm..it has to be

 

[bergie]

Where are all the defenders of MF? Every other thread that discussed this had a bunch of folks saying that not shopping at BO was no different than cancel culture. I always am surprised that it shocks me when money trumps ethics, I shouldn’t be so naive.

On the other hand @ktowncamo I do appreciate you taking these questions head on. I don’t agree with you but that’s ok. I too was a loyal BO customer that never spent another dollar with the company after I emailed (twice) asking the same questions about MF loyalty you are answering now.

 

[3forks]

Hard to disagree with you on this. I hope I came across not as defending MF or defending the decision we made. I was trying to cite the reason at the time that we continued to offer MF product.



Both posts and the likes are enlightening for sure. Did this lead to BO declining in sales? Perhaps in some ways. Numbers we tracked showed new customer acquisition was still quite strong up until the end. That said, replacing lost customers comes at a much higher cost, one we likely overlooked. Lesson learned.

“Both posts and the likes are enlightening for sure”…

After MF was convicted - didn’t the amount of comments online, and direct questions posed to your company from customers who specifically asked you why BO still supported MF give you some indication that your continued support of MF was an issue, or at the least something you’d need to address?

And, if you went through the effort to investigate the charge with MF yourself, why no statement from you / the company addressing customer’s concerns about your company’s lack of response to the MF inquiries? The amount of people who stated they reached out asking for an answer and got no response at all is indicative of something in and of itself.

I’m late to this discussion, but I’m glad to see the question about your/BO’s support of MF being raised. Others may be appreciative of you coming on here to share your side of what occurred - but to me - the explanation of your support of MF seems disingenuous. And frankly, your explanation for your association with MF makes me question your whole rationale for starting this discussion.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I asked the MF question because it was perplexing, that said:
-We got an answer about the MF situation
-There has been expression from numerous folks they don't agree with the logic in the answer
-Enough folks have reiterated it cost business and maybe that is enlightening.
-The "what was BO thinking" question has been answered, even if the answer isn't liked. He didn't have to answer.
-I appreciate an answer was provided.

All that said, I don't see a point in beating on the topic further, BO is out of business, we got the question answered and the points have been made.

 

[Bannedinshortorder!]

So we won't be getting San Juan gloves?

 

[fngTony]

@ktowncamo This was likely pure speculation by a few but was there any truth to Hush acquiring the BO branded gear or was that partnership purely just a mutual marketing move without any ownership changes?

 

[fngTony]

Another question, surely I’m not the only one raising an eyebrow at how long it’s taking to liquidate the inventory. Probably out of your hands but any insight?

 

[eddielasvegas]

A bunch of people are getting their panties in a bunch over the MF and BO/CF deal (I had no awareness of the case/incident until this thread) and all I could think of is have you been paying any attention at all to the Epstein case and the release of the files and how people are willing to look the other way at pure evil for power, influence and yada, yada, yada?

Certainly not condoning the MF/BO case, but look at the JE case for how people can rationalize figgin' anything.


Eddie

 

[Marbles]

A bunch of people are getting there panties in a bunch over the MF and BO/CF deal (I had no awareness of the case/incident until this thread) and all I could think of is have you been paying any attention at all to the Epstein case and the release of the files and how people are willing to look the other way at pure evil for power, influence and yada, yada, yada?

Certainly not condoning the MF/BO case, but look at the JE case for how people can rationalize figgin' anything.


Eddie

That one touches too close to politics for RS.

People will rationalize all sorts of evil once they commit to an idea. History is full of examples, some of which are still defended today by more than a small percentage of the population of whatever people group did it years ago.

Sometimes taking a stand is truly due to values, and sometimes it is just to stoke the flames of self-righteousness so we can feel like good people; trying to remove the splinter in our brothers eye while we neglect the plank in our own.

Boycotts, as they tend to cost the people pushing them little, are prone to being a self-righteous display.

 

[Speaks]

“PE firms are predators.” Burn this into your consciousness. I don’t care what business you are in, the model is the same.

That's just factually not true, it can be in some cases but there are all kinds of different models. Ive had PE relationships where they provide capital to accelerate growth, help when asked, and otherwise participate very little in governance of the company. What kind of deal you did, how big a stake they took, and what you are doing as a company all play in. They are trying to make an aggressive multiple on a 5 year exit cycle and the best path to that can be very different. One of those options is growth, the others are less pretty.

 

[Jimmy]

 

[Nickofthewoods]

Thanks for explaining your situation. It was always a pleasure buying from BO. Customer service and asking questions about products was always handled very well.

Not sure why everyone is thankful of this explanation now. Could have been more helpful and relevant 5 years ago but OP never responded.

 

[eddielasvegas]

This has to be you, right @ktowncamo ? Link HERE.

There simply cannot be two guys named Kendall that hunt, right?


Eddie


P.S. I'll be putting this in practice on a recently purchased used pack.

 

[woods89]

Very interesting question, and one I know that I contemplated at 2 very certain points over the time of growing the business. Men are builders, growers by nature. When we get into a business situation, it takes real maturity and self examination to set and stick to a high water mark before getting too deep into the thick of it when it comes to building a business. So when considering a small or big business, most men will think a bigger business is better unless a high level of maturity exists to reign in growth for higher priorities. (family, life balance, etc)

As for humble, we always tried to stay that way, but small wasn't part of the recipe, until we were big and then small started to seem more simple and satisfying in a lot of ways. Grass is greener dreaming perhaps?

It kind of comes back to the "why grow" which I spoke about in the podcast. Once I replaced my prior income with building CF/BO, I didn't really reset my "why" and found myself engulfed in the grind of growth. By that time, an offramp to small and humble would have seemed like "giving up" vs something better. Kinda sad actually. I hope that makes sense.

I recall a time when I was thinking about being small again, as the growth started to feel like it was running faster than I was able to or wanted to keep up with. This was somewhere around 2018. My original Co-Founder and I had been growing Camofire/BlackOvis as fast as we could, fighting and grinding, but there came a point for me around 2018 when I had the real thought of "when is enough, enough?" Mind you we were growing Crispi at that point in time as well, 2 years into that adventure. This thought of "when is enough, enough" was not only as it pertained to my own business exploits, but introspectively about general life pursuits of "more is better" and also on a broader society level as I looked around. Even if I wanted to slow down, I wasn't courageous enough to confront my business partner because he was very much of the growth at all costs mindset. I suppose I just shrugged and strapped in for the ride.

Once Private Equity is part of any business equation, small and humble is not any part of any equation, and it is growth at all costs.

After the bankruptcy, I had a friend suggest that I buy CF/BO out of bankruptcy and re-start it but with a small team, smaller goals, and enjoy the ride vs trying to conquer the world. I have to admit, that idea of CF/BO as a small and humble operation has its appeal, but if CF/BO does rise from the ashes, I doubt I have the stomach to be a part of it. Unlike Lot's wife, I don't think I will be looking back longingly for what is behind me.

Sorry for the book. You got me into some deep thought on the topic.

Every business owner needs to read this and think long and hard about what exactly they are after. I'm a partner in a business that is still in the small and humble stage, but I've seen this story play out in other businesses before. We automatically move toward growth, often forgetting in the process what our goals were in going into business in the first place.

For what it's worth, I'm another guy who lost interest after the MF stuff, but I do appreciate you being as vulnerable as you have been, and I can tell from this post that you are doing some real introspection. I respect that.

Like @ianpadron said, it's not hard to see who has run a business and who hasn't in these responses.