Muzzleloader accuracy potential

[robby denning]

Good to hear you like them Umpqua. I'm working on that muzz article for Rokslide and interviewed Steve Alderman (Lowland Mulies guy and muzz guru for sure! check out muledeercountry.com for his site)about a week ago. Said the same thing about the fiber optics sights as you and doesn't use them either.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

Good to hear you like them Umpqua. I'm working on that muzz article for Rokslide and interviewed Steve Alderman (Lowland Mulies guy and muzz guru for sure! check out muledeercountry.com for his site)about a week ago. Said the same thing about the fiber optics sights as you and doesn't use them either.

Steve really knows his stuff when it comes to deer hunting and muzzleloader hunting. I'll enjoy reading your article.

I've been reading about and accuracy improvement technique that I hope to try out in the next two weeks. The idea is to keep your breech plug uniformly clean between shots. This is done by hand spinning a close fitting drill to chase the breech plug after each shot, and chasing the flash hole with a torch cleaning wire. Of course this is for load development at the bench, and not a follow-up shot while hunting.

 

[robby denning]

Umpqua
Have you had time to try the accuracy technique you mentioned above? Curious what you find out.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

Umpqua
Have you had time to try the accuracy technique you mentioned above? Curious what you find out.

Haven't yet Robby. I have some more Blackhorn 209 on order and it hasn't come in yet.

 

[FURMAN]

I have started to clean the breach plug in my Savage after every outing. It seems to have helped with accuracy. It will take some more shooting to see for sure. I have found using drill bits does the best job and it is fast.

 

[robby denning]

rfurman24,
What gun and powder are you shooting?

 

[FURMAN]

I'm shooting Blackhorn 209 with Thor bullets in a Savage ML-II. This will be my Colorado load. I will eventually get a scope on it and order some Parker bullets to shoot with smokeless.

 

[bowinhand]

I'm curious of what 209 primer everyone is using? The Thor bullets look interesting incorporating barns x bullet and been hearing good things about BH 209 powder. This is a very informative thread.

 

[robby denning]

rfurman24, good gun and great you're getting acceptable accuracy with the Blackhorn 209.

bowinhand, I've heard Winchester's 209 built for muzzleloaders is a decent primer as it's not as hot as shotshell 209's (too much flame, fouling, and power for accuracy)

I'm switching to Precision Rifles Variflame which allows you to shoot a large rifle primer which is much more suited to muzzleloader charges. I'll be writing about it soon in the "Big Mule Deer Here I come" thread on this same forum soon.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

Robby: I finally shot my Knight with the XS ghost ring sights. I love them. The gun scoped was consistently shooting a 1.5" group @ 100 yards (460 grain conical). With the XS ghost ring sight, I was shooting 2.5" groups. That feels really good to get that accuracy with open sights.

I just ordered a set of XS ghost ring sights for my Ruger 10/22. We have a 4" gong set up at 100 yards behind the house and can do a ton of practice using the same sights with that set-up.

 

[robby denning]

Good to hear Umpqua! That seems about right going from scoped to peep. 2.5" groups are almost half of what a lot of muzzleloaders are shooting. Do you know what the twist rate in the Knight barrel is?

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

Good to hear Umpqua! That seems about right going from scoped to peep. 2.5" groups are almost half of what a lot of muzzleloaders are shooting. Do you know what the twist rate in the Knight barrel is?

Robby: The Knight Disc Extreme 50 cal, is a 1:28 twist. I have heard the perfect bullet weight for a bore sized conical in that twist rate is 430 grains. I am currently shooting a 460 grain No Excuses conical bullet since we have to use full bore sized conicals or PRB (patched round balls) in Oregon. I will use that load in Colorado in a couple years. The No Excuses bullets I understand are sized to 0.503" and fit beautifully in that barrel.

 

[robby denning]

Shooting 460 grain conicals is like shooting an elephant gun! If you put one of those in a buck, that is going to put the hurt on him. Is this the load you're shooting for the Utah hunt this year?

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

Shooting 460 grain conicals is like shooting an elephant gun! If you put one of those in a buck, that is going to put the hurt on him. Is this the load you're shooting for the Utah hunt this year?

No that load is just for our elephant sized blacktail deer in Oregon ;-)

That heavy bullet really has to do with accuracy. In Oregon, we have to use lead full bore size conicals (or PRBs), and that 460 grain bullet is around the bullet length and weight that a 1:28 twist barrel loves. I'd use a lighter bullet, but with a 1:28 twist, you really need to be around 400-450 grains to stabilize the bullet get great accuracy, since the 1:28 barrel twist is designed primarily for sabots. That's a concept I really did not fully grasp until this year, so it only took me 25 years of muzzleloading to get through my thick head. When shooting lead conicals you really need a heavy, long pill in a fast twist barrel to get the best accuracy. It feels like overkill, but going to that heavy bullet has cut my group size in half. The 460 grain in my 1:28 twist Knight has excellent accuracy, enormous energy, and an acceptable trajectory out to 125 yards......about my limit with open sights. So I now have an Oregon legal load I can make a shot to my limit with open sights, and have gobs of energy to get the job done as well. That is likely the load I will use for Colorado elk in two years.

BORE SIZED LEAD CONICALS: I found a table on Precision Bullet's website and this was Cecil's recommendations to optimize accuracy when shooting bore sized lead conicals. I'll distill what I found in the table:

1:48 twist (50 Caliber): 300-350 grain lead conicals
1:32 twist (50 Caliber): 350-450 grain lead conicals
1:28 twist (50 Caliber): 390-450 grain lead conicals (Knight Disc Extreme)
1:26 twist (50 Caliber): 390-450 grain lead conicals

What becomes obvious is the faster the barrel twist, the heavier the bullet needed.

I'd love a bullet around 420 grains, right in the middle of the sweet spot for my Knight. The bullet Two Tikka used (see post #6 in this thread), is a 430 grain UC Short Conical from Bull Shops, and that looks like it would be just about perfect, so I've gotta try those out!

You asked about Utah, since we can use sabots there, we are taking our CVA Accura, scoped with an Aimpoint. Right now the load looks like 110 grains of Blackhorn 209, Fiocchi primer, and a saboted Barnes 250 grain Spitfire T-EZ bullet. That load shoots about 1.25 groups at 100 yards. With the Aimpoint (no magnification), that is about 125 to 150 yard set-up. I'm also thinking of taking a Leupold variable with a bullet drop reticle and calibrating it out to 200 yards and swapping out the scope and using it for antelope in Wyoming on our way home from Utah.