Muzzleloader accuracy potential

[robby denning]

I'm no pro muzzleloader guy, but I've been toying with them for about 10 years now. I've shot some incredible groups with peep sights (3-shots under 1" at 100 yards.) The pro's do even better than that.

I've been out of it for a few years, as I haven't pulled any tags so I don't have the pics to prove it. Next time to the range, I will though (as I'm applying for four states this year with a bunch of points so I'm preparing to draw) I'll pack my camera.

Anyway, are any of you accuracy freaks when it comes to muzzleloaders? What's your tools to improve accuracy?

Mine has been shooting loose powder (finer adjustments), seating the bullet the same depth everytime, and of course finding a bullet the rifle (more like the twist) likes. You?

 

[BuckSnort]

I think I got lucky with my Omega... I didn't have to do much experimenting.. 100 grains of Triple 7 fff and a 295 gr. powerbelt gives me 7/8" 3 shot groups at 100 (I spitpatch between shots)

Best thing I did was remove the rear sight and replace it with a Williams peep sight... Liked it so much I did the same with a model 94 win I have...

 

[robby denning]

Jason, you're exactly right. Peeps have so much potential. Amazing groups with your Omega. Obviously a little luck involved, but still an achievable group. Lots of guys settle for big groups with muzzleloader because after all, "it's just a muzzleloader", but that's not true. The old sharpshooter 150 years ago did incredible things with muzzleloaders and we have way more technology than they had.

 

[Jared Bloomgren]

I am using a TC Endeavor and have had some great luck with this inline. Although an inline my longest shot has been 186 yards with open sights. I had practiced with it a lot before setting out and knew much about my flight pattern. It is a great time!

 

[robby denning]

Jared, 186 with open sights is great. By open, I assume you mean a buckhorn style open site and not a peep?

 

[TwoTikkas]

I picked up a Knight Disc Extreme a few years ago when I was planning a Colorado elk muzzy hunt. Then I blew my points on another season,and never got to use it as intended. On a lighter note,I did get to do a bunch of experimenting with it's accuracy potential. Not being allowed to use sabots made it interesting. I couldn't find an over-the-counter bullet that I liked much. Maxi Balls didn't perform well,and I wanted a heavy pill for elk. I soon found out about hangfires with the pellets and bullets that didn't stay down on the charge. NOT a good thing! What to do? I called "No Excuses" and "Bull Shops" and had some bullets sized up to .503 and switched to Blackhorn 209 powder. My Knight doesn't have a Blackhorn breech,but I never had a single ignition problem with the breech plug it came with. Instantanious ignition and super accuracy with a heavy, full bore bullet legal for Colorado. This target was fired with the aid of a scope for load development purposes. I have since re-mounted the open sights in preperation for an elk hunt. Now I need to round up the p-points and go get em.

This is a 5 shot 100yd group. The circle in the center of the target is an inch. I personally don't believe in shooting a critter the size of an elk beyond 150yds with any front stuffer. I figure this should be a dandy recipe for such hunting. Now I need to see how well I can perform with the open fiber optics. Yipes.

 

[robby denning]

AWESOME group! That's what I'm talking about right there. Seeing groups like that gets me fired up. Thanks for sharing.

I agree that the scope is necessary for tuning a load- it just removes one more variable. If it won't shoot with a scope, it won't shoot with a peep or buckhorn.

10 years ago, I didn't think much about muzz accuracy, but once I started playing with them, I realized the good ones can be tuned like a rifle.

I agree on the granular powder, it's seems to be more consistent in ignition which makes sense as there is much more surface area to ingnite. Not as convenient on follow ups shots, but who needs a follow up shot with that kind of accuracy? Thanks TT

 

[robby denning]

I'm heading out this weekend for family fishing and shooting trip. I just got the temp front sight installed (see my other thread: Big Mule Deer...), so probably won't be shooting any $1.00 loads until I get it sighted in and permanent sight installed, so just the cheap Hornady pistol bullets for now.

If I draw NV, I already have a load I shot out of this gun when I had the scope on. I shot 1.5" two shot (didn't have any more bullets left as I'd only ordered the sample pack) group at drum roll............

200 yards! It's a 195 grain sabot and NV allows sabot so would love to get to shoot that. Results out in a few weeks!

 

[TwoTikkas]

Awesome! Good luck to you in the draw.

 

[Jared Bloomgren]

This was my 186 yard shot with open sights. No peep.

 

[robby denning]

Even better with open sights. Have you tried peep sights? Your thoughts?

 

[BuckSnort]

Awesome buck Jared...Nice shot too..

 

[TwoTikkas]

Yipes! That's a dandy buddy.

 

[Jared Bloomgren]

Thanks guys! I am very proud of this buck! It was -14 degrees the day I shot that buck and had to tredge thru a minimum of 18" of snow while in search of him. It was one heck of a hunt to say the least! For me to find another buck like him will be nearly impossible; his symetrical rack and the extra matching inlines are something that will be hard to find again I think. I have never seen another mule deer like him having the extra inlines and matching up so nice. He was an old deer with many battle scars to show.

I have used a peep in the past on a rifle and did like the improved accuracy. I have thought about putting them on this rifle for increased accuracy. In SD we cannot use a magnified scope.

 

[robby denning]

Jared,
and thats a SD buck, too, right?

On the peep, if you haven't followed my thread "Big Mule Deer..." on this forum, I'm putting together a peep now. I still need a few more weeks to know which (if) state I'm hunting so I can order bullets, but I'm hoping to get to 2" or less groups with it.

 

[FURMAN]

I am new to muzzleloading. I am interested in knowing the accuracy differences between peeps and open sights. I am thinking about putting a Williams peep on my Savage. How is the field of view? Do they interfere with picking a point of aim on game? How are they in low light?

 

[BuckSnort]

I am new to muzzleloading. I am interested in knowing the accuracy differences between peeps and open sights. I am thinking about putting a Williams peep on my Savage. How is the field of view? Do they interfere with picking a point of aim on game? How are they in low light?

I love my williams peeps... They are great for point of aim as they allow you to focus on the front sight.. Low light is not an issue..

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

To improve accuracy, I weigh my powder charges.

!!!!! DISCLAIMER: You have to be VERY CAREFUL when weighing muzzleloader powders since muzzleloader load data is based on powder VOLUME, not powder WEIGHT. The WEIGHT of powder is not necessarily the same as the VOLUME of powder. If you want to weigh Blackhorn 209, you take the desired VOLUME of power and multiply by 0.7 to get the WEIGHT of powder. So for example if you want 100 grains by volume of Blackhorn 209, that will that will be 70 grains by weight (100 x 0.7 = 70). Do NOT use these numbers for other types of powder....like Triple 7, Pyrodex, etc!

I ran a test about a year ago to see how much variance I would get when volume measuring loads of Blackhorn 209. I measured ten different 120 grain charges (by volume), and weighed each charge on a powder scale. I had a 2.8 grain difference between the heaviest and lightest load. By weighing the powder I can keep that variance within 0.1 grains, a big improvement in consistency.

For this years hunt, I will pre-weigh 20+ loads of Blackhorn 209 on my powder scale at home, and put each powder charge in a waterproof threaded vial. This will protect the powder from the elements and give me reloading times similar to a speed loader.

A couple weeks ago I found these great little vials on eBay, 25 vials for $11.50 including shipping, or $0.46 per vial. I bought both the 5 ML and 10 ML size. I checked and the 5 ML size will hold a max of 110 grains (by volume) of BH 209, but will be totally full and therefore a bit difficult to pour. I'm gonna get all 10 ML size on my next order. You can also use these to carry your bullets. If you're interested, search eBay for "muzzleloader powder vials":

 

[FURMAN]

Thanks BuckSnort. I think I will go ahead and try the peeps. I will definitely try weighing when I get a scope for the rifle. I am not sure I am accurate enough to see the difference with open sights.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

Thanks BuckSnort. I think I will go ahead and try the peeps. I will definitely try weighing when I get a scope for the rifle. I am not sure I am accurate enough to see the difference with open sights.

Take a look at XS Sights. Use their Ghost Ring rear sight (similar to a peep) along with their "white line" front sight. It is a very rugged sight too! I just put those on my Knight Disc Elite and love them. Your aiming point is off of the top of the front sight, so you don't cover the target with the front sight. I find with fiber optics and such, when you are shooting at 100 yards, the front sight covers a LOT of the target.