Mtn lion(s) kill 15 dogs in 30 days (Colorado)

[JustSomeGuy35]

Should have lead with that.


We are in closer agreement with that statement than your previous lines have made things seem.

We can just agree that they need to be well managed.

I think my message gets muddied when the masses begin hurling accusations and insults at me. I think some of these guys misinterpret my views based on arguments they've had with the tree-hugging types.

I'm a hunter and outdoorsman, thru and thru, and I firmly believe that animal populations must be managed.

 

[KurtR]

I kill them, use netting, put up fencing and electric fencing. Depends on the critter. I have to contend with mice and bugs, all the way up to deer. In WV, I was given nearly unlimited deer tags for protecting my farm. Here in IL, I'm assed out with the deer because I'm too small of an operation. So I kill my allotted 2 per year and spend the growing season shooting them with airsoft guns when they get too close to my stuff.

Just so we're clear, I have no issues with people killing wolves that are preying on their animals. I don't care if people hunt wolves. What's the point of stocking critters that you can't hunt? I thought I made that clear before but maybe I didn't.

What I take issue with is the idea that a species of animal should cease to exist because of the interests of the few. I'm not a rancher nor a houndsman, which most people aren't, so I think it's only natural that I don't share the same level of concern that you guys do.

I also want it to be clear that I think it's only fair that gov't reimburses ranchers in places where they've stocked wolves. What the rate should be is beyond me but it should be reasonable.

Sorry to hear about the crummy circumstances you're in. I hope it gets resolved at some point!

Why shouldn’t the guys with working dogs be compensated? Good dogs are north of 10000 dollars.

 

[Billy Goat]

I think my message gets muddied when the masses begin hurling accusations and insults at me. I think some of these guys misinterpret my views based on arguments they've had with the tree-hugging types.

I'm a hunter and outdoorsman, thru and thru, and I firmly believe that animal populations must be managed.

I think some of your first posts could have been worded better and are part of what brought the onslaught.

Wolves are pretty sharp predators, I'm certain it's only a matter of time before they are jumping fences in yards, or killing pets on a leash, if nobody is able to link an article proving to you its already happened. I'm sure if you were in West VA you were familiar with stories of their cousins, they are smart and highly adaptable.

I had a Border Collie attacked by a Coyote, it wasn't on a leash, it was doing an outrun on a herd to bring them upto the barn. I also know of coyotes coming into barns and attacking sheep, with lights on, and radio on, and they are even getting hunted there.
Highly adaptable species.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Bees/wasps/hornets/etc kill 50+ people in the US every year. Yet there is no outrage from the WKRs stating that they should be eradicated. Out of all of our "boogeyman" animals, this one actually kills quite a few people year after year despite the abundance of Epipens. How many documented cases of wolves, bears, mountain lions, etc are there with that consistent annual body count?

Birds of prey take an unknown amount of small pets in the US every year. Birds of prey also take an unknown number of chickens/ducks/etc that would have been sold to market (negatively impacting people's livelihoods). Yet there is no outrage from the WRKs stating that they should be eradicated.

Coyotes and bobcats take an unknown amount of small pets in the US every year. Seen plenty of both cruising in populated areas, including walking on top of 6' fences in the burbs; see them often on my jogs while at home. They hammer the babies of wildlife, our small pets, and young animals that would have been sold to market (negatively impacting people's livelihoods). Yet there is no outrage from the WRKs stating that they should be eradicated.

But yep, the wolf is the top killer of all things near and dear.

 

[Rambucsabillbul]

Sounds more and more like BC Canada all the time.

Snowflakes running the F and W departments with government full of greenies

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Why shouldn’t the guys with working dogs be compensated? Good dogs are north of 10000 dollars.

So why limit this to only a wolf? Why not when bit by a rattlesnake? What not when torn up by a bayed bear or lion? Why not when it runs across a dirt track and gets hit by a SXS? Why not if it gets hurt or killed while falling from an obstacle (ex: cliff face)? You get the point.

While the loss or injury of a hound sucks, the houndsman does accept a certain level of risk. They should charge more to cover their costs rather than expect to suckle from the public funds teet.

 

[Coldtrail]

Bees/wasps/hornets/etc kill 50+ people in the US every year. Yet there is no outrage from the WKRs stating that they should be eradicated. Out of all of our "boogeyman" animals, this one actually kills quite a few people year after year despite the abundance of Epipens. How many documented cases of wolves, bears, mountain lions, etc are there with that consistent annual body count?

Birds of prey take an unknown amount of small pets in the US every year. Birds of prey also take an unknown number of chickens/ducks/etc that would have been sold to market (negatively impacting people's livelihoods). Yet there is no outrage from the WRKs stating that they should be eradicated.

Coyotes and bobcats take an unknown amount of small pets in the US every year. Seen plenty of both cruising in populated areas, including walking on top of 6' fences in the burbs; see them often on my jogs while at home. They hammer the babies of wildlife, our small pets, and young animals that would have been sold to market (negatively impacting people's livelihoods). Yet there is no outrage from the WRKs stating that they should be eradicated.

But yep, the wolf is the top killer of all things near and dear.

It's probably that with the exception of birds of prey which follows the 3 S rule, pole traps, and poison....there are entire industries legally manufacturing stuff to kill the species you list.

 

[sneaky]

A quick Google search will turn up plenty of articles just from Idaho of wolf/ dog depredations and many involve people with their dogs either on leash or at heel. Plenty of documented cases of hounds being killed. My neighbors have lost dogs to wolves, sorry I can't link news articles because they didn't put it in the paper. I'm not going to ask for pictures of their dead dogs either just to appease someone on the internet either. With the nature of outdoor recreation and people hiking with dogs in Colorado, it won't be long after the wolves are introduced before people get to see the non-Disney side of them.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

Why shouldn’t the guys with working dogs be compensated? Good dogs are north of 10000 dollars.

Which type of working dogs? Like the kind that guard livestock?

If so, I don't see why they shouldn't be covered by reimbursement in states that stock wolves and reimburse for lost livestock.

If it's just someone's farm dog or hunting dog though, I don't think that quite applies.

 

[displacedtexan]

I do understand the depth that the wolf people will go to.

Sometimes it is better to simplify stuff than to argue every little nuance.

In the case of the town terrorized by mtn lions. Why couldn’t they band together and remove the problem? They can’t agree to kill the cat(s). Silly. So the dog owners are sol.

In the case of the wolf people, they are insulated from their decision. They hope to hear a howl every now and again cause it gives em shivers. The problems caused by the wolves will be other people’s problems. So no harm done.

We have the same crap down here with black bears in residential neighborhoods and the folks who kill the bears stalking their kids get arrested cause the neighbors report them. Stupid shit, ignorant people thinking we can all live in harmony if we just have a bear proof garbage can.

They come out in droves to protest the bear hunts and got them stopped. So we have even more bears in backyards when the kids are out playing. As long as its someone else’s problem, its okay.

That's a lot of words to say that you agree with me.

 

[Reburn]

Which type of working dogs? Like the kind that guard livestock?

If so, I don't see why they shouldn't be covered by reimbursement in states that stock wolves and reimburse for lost livestock.

If it's just someone's farm dog or hunting dog though, I don't think that quite applies.

Hence the problem. Who gets to define.

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

I think some of your first posts could have been worded better and are part of what brought the onslaught.

Perhaps.

I do know that this isn't my first wolf thread on here and it's always an onslaught of guys that haven't really considered what I'm saying. I talk about suburban yard pets, they think I'm talking about working dogs. I talk about pets being walked on leashes, they think I'm talking about hounds running in the wilds of Idaho.

Is it my fault that people make too many assumptions or don't follow along close enough with what I'm saying and also what I'm not saying?

Probably....hahaha

Edited to add: The difference is that in rare occasions, someone like yourself asks me questions to better understand what I'm saying. And then I usually find some common ground with them. I don't really have any extreme ideas about wolves. I don't want them extinct but I also don't want them knocking on the front door either. That's all.

 

[Will_m]

So why limit this to only a wolf? Why not when bit by a rattlesnake? What not when torn up by a bayed bear or lion? Why not when it runs across a dirt track and gets hit by a SXS? Why not if it gets hurt or killed while falling from an obstacle (ex: cliff face)? You get the point.

While the loss or injury of a hound sucks, the houndsman does accept a certain level of risk. They should charge more to cover their costs rather than expect to suckle from the public funds teet.

Do you know what a logical fallacy is? You could put your first statement under the definition of slippery slope as an example.

I agree with your first sentence in your second paragraph and while your first paragraph makes sense at first glance it’s not sound logic. In other words, it means nothing as far as a substantive addition to the premise.

 

[KurtR]

So why limit this to only a wolf? Why not when bit by a rattlesnake? What not when torn up by a bayed bear or lion? Why not when it runs across a dirt track and gets hit by a SXS? Why not if it gets hurt or killed while falling from an obstacle (ex: cliff face)? You get the point.

While the loss or injury of a hound sucks, the houndsman does accept a certain level of risk. They should charge more to cover their costs rather than expect to suckle from the public funds teet

Not that I don’t disagree but it sucks for the guys in Wisconsin chasing grouse and they have to constantly worry about their bird dog being killed.

 

[Mountainrancher]

Gonna try and put this thread back on track as I’m partially responsible for it getting this off track. The problem that the folks in Nederland are experiencing is almost entirely on cpw. It’s my opinion that cpw has done an abysmal job of managing lions in this state. About 3 or so years ago the cpw began the process of changing the way quotas are set and the areas they are set in. I am very good friends with multiple houndsmen who went to the meetings to help cpw set the new policies. What a majority of the hunters, ranchers, and houndsmen told them is they need to be shrinking management areas and adjusting quotas to allow lions to be taken from as many areas as possible. What cpw did was combine even more ground into the new areas and bump the quotas up a small amount. This has not helped the problem of certain gmus (like around Nederland) having no cats killed while others are being filled in a matter of days or weeks.

 

[30338]

Which type of working dogs? Like the kind that guard livestock?

If so, I don't see why they shouldn't be covered by reimbursement in states that stock wolves and reimburse for lost livestock.

If it's just someone's farm dog or hunting dog though, I don't think that quite applies.

Why wouldn't hunting dogs get reimbursement? $2500 for a pup, at least double that in training. Finished bird dogs are anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000. If I am grouse hunting and wolf eats my bird dog, I'd feel Parks and Wildlife would need to pay for that.

 

[long hunter]

Seems to me if you live in an area where apex predators live these things happen, now on the other hand it would seem a bunch of left-wing transplants moving into such an area, thinking look at all the wildlife we can experience gets upset because Mr. Mountain lion snatches fluffy. Kinda like a Dorthey situation as in no shit toto we sure isn't in Kansas anymore.

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

Why wouldn't hunting dogs get reimbursement? $2500 for a pup, at least double that in training. Finished bird dogs are anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000. If I am grouse hunting and wolf eats my bird dog, I'd feel Parks and Wildlife would need to pay for that.

I understand why you feel that way but I don't agree that the state should pay for it. If that was to pass, think of all the restrictions they'd put on your hunting to limit their risk of payout. It'd be bad all the way around.

 

[Rich M]

I think my message gets muddied when the masses begin hurling accusations and insults at me. I think some of these guys misinterpret my views based on arguments they've had with the tree-hugging types.

I'm a hunter and outdoorsman, thru and thru, and I firmly believe that animal populations must be managed.

It is tough to know what’s serious and what’s not on here. Some guys, myself included sometime are just giving a hard time. Hunting season is mostly over so we bicker til the draw or hunt talk starts up. Then we bust on the guys asking about units. Etc.

I took you for a tree hugger.

My take is simple, he who has the most to lose should have a say. The Neder folks should have a say in how the cats are managed. Ditto for cattlemen and folks living on the wolf range. If it were up to me there’d be long open season on wolves bears cats. Keep the numbers down, cant kill em all without poison, but can keep em respectful of folks, pets, livestock…

The tremendous numbers of ignorant folks wanting to save the animals have no skin in the game, just an emotional need to save the wolves cats bears manatees seals, whatever.

 

[FLATHEAD]

I dont see the need to ask the govt for a solution or permission
to take care of a problem animal.