MT Elk Shoulder Season

[Jaguigui]

Hey fellow Roksliders,

anyone making it out for MT's shoulder season for cows? I'm trying to narrow down my choices between the districts open for the general tag. Any input on units 445, 446, 449, or 452? I'm just looking for meat and would like to take this opportunity to harvest my first elk. Pm's are welcome! I've never hunted late season before but willing to give it a shot. Thanks!

Justin A.

 

[squeekieslayer]

Go on the G and F website. They have a designated "hunt coordinator" for each area that is constantly in contact with the landowners monitoring where and when the elk are on their place. They will tell you who to contact for access. Of course, you can go beat on doors as well, but that is what the coordinator is for. The other option is to hunt BLM or State land... No hunting on national forest lands. My guess is that every chunk of state or BLM land in those 4 units will have zero elk and 1000 hunters.

JOe

 

[airlocksniffer]

Not to mention the elk will learn pretty quick to head for the timber in the day as they won't get bothered. I'll probably make an attempt up there at some point after a good hard snow and maybe get lucky but I don't think this little experiment by FWP will do a lot to reduce the population.

 

[hobbes]

Is population reduction the real goal or disbursement off of the herds off of the hay fields they camp out on?
I may take my boys out later because I'd like another elk for the freezer, but it appears that the majority of state or BLM is landlocked by private so permission to hunt private will be mandatory.

 

[Shrek]

I think it will kill plenty of elk. Pushing elk around on the wintering grounds during the winter will induce a lot of stress and the old , young , and already stressed herd bulls will die if it's a hard winter. It will do nothing to break up the herds on private all year but it will just reduce the population that is available on public lands as those herds are the ones that will take a beating. If the ranchers and farmers really wanted to get the elk broken up and run off the private land they have had the tools to do so for years. They cry because they want to sell the access rights not give it away. The shoulder seasons are a bad idea that will screw the public land hunter in the long run.

 

[squeekieslayer]

I agree with Shrek on this one. Since the day I read about these shoulder seasons I thought they were a blatant illustration of how the big landowners control the g and f. If they really truly wanted these elk populations to be thinned out and redistributed, they would allow hunting all season. The reason the elk congregate on their land is because they are not hunted there and it is a safe-haven for them.

The fact is that all that matters is convenience for big ranches. These big ranches love the idea of locking people out when they are guiding $15K+ trips for elk on their ground, but when the season is over and they want the elk thinned, NOW its ok for the public to hunt on PUBLIC land all of a sudden.

Whatever is best and most convenient for the big land owners is all that matters. The elk, the health of the herd, the hunters of this great state don't matter.

Simply put, they want to LOCK you out of PUBLIC land when they can make a ton of money guiding for big bulls, then "generously" allow you to harass a wintering herd ON PUBLIC LAND when they need them gone.

complete BS, I hope it helps a few folks fill the freezer... but I ultimately hope it illustrates the need for more access on public land during the regular season.

Joe

 

[Jon Boy]

Agreed with Joe and Dave.

 

[Shrek]

I can't speak for the rest of the state but every major land owner in 391 and 392 signed a petition AGAINST the shoulder season so it's not even the land owners supporting this. I don't know anyone who thinks this is a good idea other than the G&F. I've come to the conclusion that the G&F hate elk.

 

[airlocksniffer]

Couldn't agree more. FWP and taxpayers shouldn't be footing the bill to disperse/remove elk from private land if the landowners won't allow public hunting during the regular season.

Just to play devil's advocate here, the wildlife of Montana are property of the state of Montana. We pay the state to hunt animals on any land, public or private through tags and license fees. If my dog craps in my neighbors yard, I should be responsible to clean it up. If state owned elk are destroying alfalfa fields and knocking down fences on private land, shouldn't the state be responsible for the management of the elk to minimize the damage? I don't really think this is the best comparison nor do I agree with it but I'm sure that's a basic argument the landowners use.

That said, I have one unused general tag so I'll probably give it a try for a few days just to add more meat to the freezer.

 

[Gumbo]

Yet another questionable management strategy for Montana. I believe, however, that this strategy was handed down from the state legislature for FWP to implement. Bummer for all. I think that FWP really needs to revamp a good chunk of its hunting management strategies AND more importantly, quit pandering to landowners! The early shoulder seasons are what could really screw things up for archery hunters though.

 

[hobbes]

392 is already a circus in the flats. I can see the concern with opening that area that close to Helena. A less stressful hunt would be a limited draw B tag for each unit and would probably kill as many elk and cut it off a little earlier. I hunted a late season B tag in Colorado several times December to mid January when I lived there but it was a different type area and we didn't have huge herds on private ranches to deal with. I don't remember everything seeing big bulls with the cows we found. Maybe that is different with these herds but seems like the big bulls are loners or in bachelor groups.

 

[squeekieslayer]

I understand that there is a problem when 1000 head invade your hay stacks and winter wheat crops, tear down fences, congregate on roads making travel difficult... something needs to be done to help minimize their footprint. I just feel like shoulder seasons are too little too late.

With my profession I talk to about 20 patients a day. Almost all of the hunt, or have family that hunts. The one overwhelming problem i hear complaints about is ACCESS to the elk. It takes these animals about 3 hours into the general season to realize its time to move to private land... or at least land that is locked to hunters by private land. Montana has very liberal seasons. They do this to allow more opportunities for hunters... The problem is that for nearly 3 months these animals are harassed. When there is that type of pressure on public land for that long with that high of a concentration of hunters... the animals are either killed or on private. Every state has access issues, every state deals with private lands locking away opportunities, I just feel that the long seasons put added stress on these animals to the point where their only chance of survival is making their way to private land. Once they figure that out for a few generations, there is never a stimulus to leave.

I am not saying that every land owner should allow public access. But more concentration of controlled BMA permission areas and access to locked public land would go a long way. The hunting lobby tries every legislative cycle to pass access laws. The most recent big loss for hunters was the corner jumping bill. Allowing us to corner jump checkerboarded public land would allow access to thousands of acres of land without ever laying a step on private land... why does this bill fail? It seems like a no brainer... let the public onto public land right? NO the legislature has a VERY strong tie to the big ranchers and farmers. They don't want it because it will mess up their guiding and private sanctuary hunting opportunities.

Not to get on a soapbox... but as long as all we are willing to do is bitch on forums and in coffee shops, nothing will get done. Get involved, RMEF, MDF and many other sportsmans lobby groups are out there. We need to do our part to get the grassroots message out there to the legislators. It isn't hard, it just takes an organized effort by the masses. Hunters make up a HUGE percentage of the citizens in the state. If we group together and send a message, things will happen.

JOe

 

[Shrek]

The solution for elk in Hayfields is to have depredatation hunts on those fields all spring and summer with public on call wait lists doing the killing. If a farmer has a real problem then they would be well motivated to allow access to the fields. I know that the land owner I'm familiar with let hunters come and shoot elk in the hay this fall before and during the season . Last count was north of 40 cows. No , they don't let people hunt bulls or the rest of the ranch but they are willing to work with the G&F to thin the herds and bust them off the fields which is all we can really expect. Several of the large ranches in the area I hunt are sign in public access. If the G&F had started allowing the ddepredatation hunts as soon as the the hay turned green it would have busted the herds up and kept them busted up. The G&F just wants to cater to the lazy road hunters and kill all the elk on the winter grounds so they don't have to work so hard all summer organizing call up hunts.

 

[Gumbo]

I understand that there is a problem when 1000 head invade your hay stacks and winter wheat crops, tear down fences, congregate on roads making travel difficult... something needs to be done to help minimize their footprint. I just feel like shoulder seasons are too little too late.

With my profession I talk to about 20 patients a day. Almost all of the hunt, or have family that hunts. The one overwhelming problem i hear complaints about is ACCESS to the elk. It takes these animals about 3 hours into the general season to realize its time to move to private land... or at least land that is locked to hunters by private land. Montana has very liberal seasons. They do this to allow more opportunities for hunters... The problem is that for nearly 3 months these animals are harassed. When there is that type of pressure on public land for that long with that high of a concentration of hunters... the animals are either killed or on private. Every state has access issues, every state deals with private lands locking away opportunities, I just feel that the long seasons put added stress on these animals to the point where their only chance of survival is making their way to private land. Once they figure that out for a few generations, there is never a stimulus to leave.

I am not saying that every land owner should allow public access. But more concentration of controlled BMA permission areas and access to locked public land would go a long way. The hunting lobby tries every legislative cycle to pass access laws. The most recent big loss for hunters was the corner jumping bill. Allowing us to corner jump checkerboarded public land would allow access to thousands of acres of land without ever laying a step on private land... why does this bill fail? It seems like a no brainer... let the public onto public land right? NO the legislature has a VERY strong tie to the big ranchers and farmers. They don't want it because it will mess up their guiding and private sanctuary hunting opportunities.

Not to get on a soapbox... but as long as all we are willing to do is bitch on forums and in coffee shops, nothing will get done. Get involved, RMEF, MDF and many other sportsmans lobby groups are out there. We need to do our part to get the grassroots message out there to the legislators. It isn't hard, it just takes an organized effort by the masses. Hunters make up a HUGE percentage of the citizens in the state. If we group together and send a message, things will happen.

JOe

Amen!

 

[beachbunny]

wow, so that's how is out there?
shrek, do they have depredation (we call them crop damage here) there?

 

[Shrek]

I'm not sure what they are doing with crop damage hunts but they didn't start trying to bust up the herds on my friends place until late August or early September. If they would start early in the year and have the rancher call for one or two hunters when they come to the fields the fields would become much less attractive to the elk. It will take some time to get them to give up going to the alfla buffet but starting as soon as they start in the spring instead of waiting until the late summer and their habit has to be broken would go a long way.

Hobbs , the G&F wants to kill half of all the elk in 392 and 391 ! That would definitely lesson the crop damage but I'm pretty sure that would mean almost no elk what so ever on public land as there would be plenty of room on the private for the remaining elk and no reason for the ranchers to run them off.

 

[hobbes]

I'm not sure what they are doing with crop damage hunts but they didn't start trying to bust up the herds on my friends place until late August or early September. If they would start early in the year and have the rancher call for one or two hunters when they come to the fields the fields would become much less attractive to the elk. It will take some time to get them to give up going to the alfla buffet but starting as soon as they start in the spring instead of waiting until the late summer and their habit has to be broken would go a long way.

Hobbs , the G&F wants to kill half of all the elk in 392 and 391 ! That would definitely lesson the crop damage but I'm pretty sure that would mean almost no elk what so ever on public land as there would be plenty of room on the private for the remaining elk and no reason for the ranchers to run them off.

I wouldn't want to see remotely close to that many elk harvested, but I also don't think the bad guys are FWP. The bad guys are the legislature guided by special interest groups. The system should work without political influence. Whether we like it or not FWP answers to the legislature like all other Departments.

 

[Shrek]

Hobbs , half of the current population is their goal for the two HD's .

 

[Quikcoog]

Not to get on a soapbox... but as long as all we are willing to do is bitch on forums and in coffee shops, nothing will get done. Get involved, RMEF, MDF and many other sportsmans lobby groups are out there. We need to do our part to get the grassroots message out there to the legislators. It isn't hard, it just takes an organized effort by the masses. Hunters make up a HUGE percentage of the citizens in the state. If we group together and send a message, things will happen.

JOe

I couldn't agree more, people need to stop lurking about on forums and grumbling in the back of dark bar rooms. Join a group and get yourselves involved, let your legislators know how you feel. Are you a RMEF member Joe? I was at the GF banquet 2 years ago, hoping to make it back there this year.

 

[squeekieslayer]

Life member, it was my first big purchase when I got out of optometry school.i went to my first banquet last year and plan to get a table with a few friends there this year.

Joe