Mountain Mule Deer Hunt Video!

[robby denning]

bahahahahha.... I was waiting for you to respond to this


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blasphemy. i’d ban him if he didn’t own half the site.


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[Dioni A]

@Justin Crossley great video and I appreciate you sharing this. The truth doesn't seem to be a pre requisite in many hunting shows. I've shit the bed worse on well prepared shots half that distance. Fact of the matter is that it happens. Plenty of holier than thou hunters have screwed up shots much much closer but justify it from being an offhand or rushed shot. A bedded Buck is my favorite shot regardless of the angle he's at and oftentimes a good shooting position beats getting closer.

I put a four shots in a deer's guts at 405 yards this year. I made a bad wind call but knew he was sick from the first shot so I kept shooting. I figure I was 6-8 inches off point of aim.

Too bad the critics can't own their failures....
Last I checked were all on the same team.

 

[orionthehunter1]

So people can't disagree with a bad shot on a bad angle? I guess we can't also disagree with someone boasting about a four shot group in a buck's guts. Good luck guys maybe next time we shouldn't promote and hype up a world premiere movie of wounding a 150 class buck to death.

 

[Justin Crossley]

So people can't disagree with a bad shot on a bad angle? I guess we can't also disagree with someone boasting about a four shot group in a buck's guts. Good luck guys maybe next time we shouldn't promote and hype up a world premiere movie of wounding a 150 class buck to death.

You may as well stop trolling little buddy. I made a mistake and owned up to it. You can agree or disagree with whatever you want. You won't get a rise out of me regardless of how many times you post on our forum that you don't approve of the choice I made to shoot that buck.

I wish you good luck this season.

 

[Dioni A]

Wasn't boasting in the slightest. Was standing up and saying that it happens and it can happen much closer. Also convenient how all the people who are throwing stones never seem to do anything wrong. Shame you can't own your own actions and support people who've owned theirs.

 

[orionthehunter1]

I own my actions all the time its called being an adult. Nice assumption though. If you weren't boasting why mention the size of the group? Justin nobody is trolling and I'm not your little buddy

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

Bad shots happen, the internal discussion is what is the most important. How do you go about improving for next time and evolving the personal ethics and performance to make a clean shot next time. The margin for error when adding distance does get smaller, but I have seen 100 yard shots go awry, long way of saying....it happens.

Congrats on your buck Jason, enjoyed the video.

 

[MuleDeerMike]

Wounding animals happens to everyone, yes. I'm not going to pile on the shooter but I think we can all agree that the odds of a bad shot at 800 yards are exponentially higher than at 200-300 yards. The fact that this continually needs to be pointed out to people on YouTube/Social Media is the most annoying part and I believe that's the point some people are trying to make here and should be the main takeaway. Add in the terrible shot angle and the follow up shot that missed by 5 feet and most of these reactions seem pretty reasonable.

Beyond that, the videography was great and I enjoyed the film and I'm glad you were able to recover the buck. As they say, sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. The final camera shot of you guys hiking out of the basin with the buck loaded up was my favorite part.

 

[Justin Crossley]

I’m tired of seeing so many wounded animals from shots like that taken. I think it leads to more youngsters thinking it’s OK to do the same. Not impressed.

I hope youngsters or less experienced hunters see this and think twice about any shot they take. It's not the intent of anyone on the Rokstaff to promote taking bad shots. I know by showing the video, it can be taken that way but it's not the intent in any way.

Serious question:

It seems to me that in the world of archery a hunter is applauded for "backing out" after a hit and waiting until the next day to recover their deer. It happens all the time. Most of those shots are very close, like under 40 yards and yet it's okay to assume the animal will not die right away and the best tactic is to let them die overnight. Why don't we see the same outrage in those instances?

If everyone was being totally honest with themselves and insisted on only using the most deadly weapon in the name of ethics, wouldn't we stop shooting animals with muzzleloaders, and bows?

And, no I don't support doing that.

 

[Dioni A]

I hope youngsters or less experienced hunters see this and think twice about any shot they take. It's not the intent of anyone on the Rokstaff to promote taking bad shots. I know by showing the video, it can be taken that way but it's not the intent in any way.

Serious question:

It seems to me that in the world of archery a hunter is applauded for "backing out" after a hit and waiting until the next day to recover their deer. It happens all the time. Most of those shots are very close, like under 40 yards and yet it's okay to assume the animal will not die right away and the best tactic is to let them die overnight. Why don't we see the same outrage in those instances?

If everyone was being totally honest with themselves and insisted on only using the most deadly weapon in the name of ethics, wouldn't we stop shooting animals with muzzleloaders, and bows?

And, no I don't support doing that.

This is exactly why I inserted myself in this conversation. I don't get how stick bows are acceptable to people but an 800 yard shot causes a stir. The double standards are very frustrating to me. I'm all for any method of take as long as a person does their diligence in practicing and uses their best judgment before taking a shot. Stuff happens even when you think you've done everything right. You did everything right after the fact and that's what I choose to judge based off of.

 

[robby denning]

I own my actions all the time its called being an adult...

sure, but we do it in private. Justin could’ve kept this video to himself. There was no pressure to post this video. He owned his mistake in a very public way.

Dioni, thanks for the transparency


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[MuleDeerMike]

I hope youngsters or less experienced hunters see this and think twice about any shot they take. It's not the intent of anyone on the Rokstaff to promote taking bad shots. I know by showing the video, it can be taken that way but it's not the intent in any way.

Serious question:

It seems to me that in the world of archery a hunter is applauded for "backing out" after a hit and waiting until the next day to recover their deer. It happens all the time. Most of those shots are very close, like under 40 yards and yet it's okay to assume the animal will not die right away and the best tactic is to let them die overnight. Why don't we see the same outrage in those instances?

If everyone was being totally honest with themselves and insisted on only using the most deadly weapon in the name of ethics, wouldn't we stop shooting animals with muzzleloaders, and bows?

And, no I don't support doing that.

Sorry man, but that logic is very flawed IMO. It's generally accepted that the practice needed and the difficulty level involved to make a 40 yard shot with a bow is equivalent to 400 yards with a rifle. 80 yards would be 800. If someone took a quartering shot on an animal with their bow at 80 yards and wounded it on a YouTube video, they would get the exact replies you're seeing here, probably even worse. Bowhunters typically shoot exponentially more arrows in the off season than rifle hunters will shoot bullets because you can shoot at your house, it's more ecomomical and again, the level of skill needed for 40 yards with a bow is equivalent to 400 yards with your rifle and if you can't shoot 40 yards with a bow then you're odds of being successful is extremely low, so much more practice is required for that shorter distance. If rifle hunters shot 50 bullets at 400-800 yards every day in their backyard then the level of proficiency at those distances would be similar to a guy who shoots 50 arrows from 40-80 yards every day. I don't know a single person who practices with their rifle at least that much other than law enforcement or military. Sure, there are a lot of "bow hunters" who have no business shooting an animal between 40 to 80 yards let alone hunting with a bow at all, but there are a ton rifle hunters that shoot beyond their effective range. All the guys I know who both bow hunt and rifle hunt, myself included, are significantly more accurate with a bow at 50 yards then their rifles at 500 and it comes down to the number of shots being taken in the off-season every year. Buying a $1500 scope and throwing it on a $2000 dollar rifle to shoot long range makes it much easier and much more likely for someone to think they're competent at those long ranges compared to learning proper archery form, bow tuning and executing a good release, and from what we've seen in recent years from social media there are more and more people buying these insanely expensive rifle platforms thinking that after a summer or two of shooting on the weekends that they're all of a sudden a sniper who can send 600+ yard rifle shots in the field at living animals. This isn't an attack on you and I'm not trying to sound self righteous, and there are shots I've taken in the past that I wish I could get back as well, so I feel for you on this one. But my biggest takeaway from shooting beyond my means in a real hunting situation was that if we're not 100% confident in taking that shot on an animal, then the shot shouldn't be taken at all. 80% confident isn't 100% and should be treated as 0%, IMO. Hunting is a never ending learning process for all of us, but comparing real world long range rifle shots to real world mid range bow shots, doesn't hold up.

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[Justin Crossley]

Sorry man, but that logic is very flawed IMO. It's generally accepted that the practice needed and the difficulty level involved to make a 40 yard shot with a bow is equivalent to 400 yards with a rifle. 80 yards would be 800. If someone took a quartering shot on an animal with their bow at 80 yards and wounded it on a YouTube video, they would get the exact replies you're seeing here, probably even worse. Bowhunters typically shoot exponentially more arrows in the off season than rifle hunters will shoot bullets because you can shoot at your house, it's more ecomomical and again, the level of skill needed for 40 yards with a bow is equivalent to 400 yards with your rifle and if you can't shoot 40 yards with a bow then you're odds of being successful is extremely low, so much more practice is required for that shorter distance. If rifle hunters shot 50 bullets at 400-800 yards every day in their backyard then the level of proficiency at those distances would be similar to a guy who shoots 50 arrows from 40-80 yards every day. I don't know a single person who practices with their rifle at least that much other than law enforcement or military. Sure, there are a lot of "bow hunters" who have no business shooting an animal between 40 to 80 yards let alone hunting with a bow at all, but there are a ton rifle hunters that shoot beyond their effective range. All the guys I know who both bow hunt and rifle hunt, myself included, are significantly more accurate with a bow at 50 yards then their rifles at 500 and it comes down to the number of shots being taken in the off-season every year. Buying a $1500 scope and throwing it on a $2000 dollar rifle to shoot long range makes it much easier and much more likely for someone to think they're competent at those long ranges compared to learning proper archery form, bow tuning and executing a good release, and from what we've seen in recent years from social media there are more and more people buying these insanely expensive rifle platforms thinking that after a summer or two of shooting on the weekends that they're all of a sudden a sniper who can send 600+ yard rifle shots in the field at living animals. This isn't an attack on you and I'm not trying to sound self righteous, and there are shots I've taken in the past that I wish I could get back as well, so I feel for you on this one. But my biggest takeaway from shooting beyond my means in a real hunting situation was that if we're not 100% confident in taking that shot on an animal, then the shot shouldn't be taken at all. 80% confident isn't 100% and should be treated as 0%, IMO. Hunting is a never ending learning process for all of us, but comparing real world long range rifle shots to real world mid range bow shots, doesn't hold up.

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I think you missed my point completely. I'm speaking of archery in general. Forget the yardage for a minute. What makes shooting an animal with a bow and then waiting until the next day to recover it any different? Happens all the time by very proficient hunters. They shoot a deer, state that they aren't sure about the results (maybe a little back, maybe a little forward, maybe the buck ducked the string) so they decide the "ethical" thing to do is back out and look for it in the morning.

Is it okay to wound a deer as long as you are only shooting your bow, muzzleloader, or rifle at a distance that is generally accepted by some people on the internet?

Anyone who hunts and states that they only shoot at an animal when they are 100% certain of the results is a liar.

I think each one of us has to make a decision to shoot a given shot or not and each one of us is responsible for what happens when we do.

What do you guys think about duck hunting or upland bird hunting? Do you refrain from it since you can't be 100%? I enjoy both of those things even though I know for a fact that there is a very good chance that birds could be wounded in the process. I do my best to practice and take shots I'm comfortable with but I understand the facts. Is it okay because they aren't deer or elk?

I'll continue to hunt all the legal species I can with whatever weapon I choose. I'll continue to practice with each weapon so my chance of wounding an animal is less than it was yesterday. I stated in the video, in the podcast, and here that I made a mistake with that shot. I certainly don't need to be convinced of that.

 

[Cahunter805]

Justin
Great buck! Congrats. We have all had to make choices during our hunting trips and sometimes they aren’t always the best. What I always say is every hunting trip is a learning experience and if we can learn from our mistakes then it certainly makes us better.

 

[realunlucky]

All any one can do is take shots thier confident in.

Personally I'm sad to see the outrage but it is cabin fever season.

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[robby denning]

All any one can do is take shots thier confident in.

Personally I'm sad to see the outrage but it is cabin fever season.

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[street]

I enjoyed the film. Thanks for sharing and telling the story. I've made a bad shot before, it's not a fun experience.

 

[bohntr]

I hope youngsters or less experienced hunters see this and think twice about any shot they take. It's not the intent of anyone on the Rokstaff to promote taking bad shots. I know by showing the video, it can be taken that way but it's not the intent in any way.

Serious question:

It seems to me that in the world of archery a hunter is applauded for "backing out" after a hit and waiting until the next day to recover their deer. It happens all the time. Most of those shots are very close, like under 40 yards and yet it's okay to assume the animal will not die right away and the best tactic is to let them die overnight. Why don't we see the same outrage in those instances?

If everyone was being totally honest with themselves and insisted on only using the most deadly weapon in the name of ethics, wouldn't we stop shooting animals with muzzleloaders, and bows?

And, no I don't support doing that.

Because arrows kill by hemorrhage and not blunt shock like bullets do. You’re comparing apples to oranges. Do a little research first. Lastly, I’ve seen PLENTY of gun shot animals left overnight on marginal hits.

 

[bohntr]

This is exactly why I inserted myself in this conversation. I don't get how stick bows are acceptable to people but an 800 yard shot causes a stir. The double standards are very frustrating to me. I'm all for any method of take as long as a person does their diligence in practicing and uses their best judgment before taking a shot. Stuff happens even when you think you've done everything right. You did everything right after the fact and that's what I choose to judge based off of.

You and Ryan Avery both have the same problem.....you make general statements without statistical data to support your assumptions with archery and/or traditional equipment. It’s no wonder many of the very experienced hunters have left this site.

 

[robby denning]

It’s no wonder many of the very experienced hunters have left this site.

always respect and appreciate your opinions Roy. But I’ve been here since the beginning and know why at least several of those hunters left.

1) they got tired of petty little threads (Aron specifically) not unlike this one.

2) once we got more than 1000 members, it was hard to express opinion unchallenged, or in the least having to take time to explain yourself, so naturally a lot of them just move on.

Seems the natural evolution of forums. But we do our best to keep it civil.

I’m sure there are other reasons I’m unaware of too.

Glad you’re still here though.


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