Most reliable and shootable 9mm semi auto pistols

[HighUintas]

My brother, beers are for shotgunning, not pistoling.

I defend my beers with my life! A pistol would be effective

 

[Formidilosus]

Thanks!

It was with a G45, Holosun 507c, shooting 147 grain Winchester white box.

Got you. The minimum score for the FBI bull really ought to be raised for dots. My impression is that it raises the average score for most about 20-40 pts or so.

My first impression was that the FBI pre qual CoF just doesn’t stress weapon manipulation enough.

Oh no. It’s a pure precision/marksmanship test. It shows baseline mechanics capability. It is excellent for that.

But then again, for the average bear defense situation, or civilian self defense case, you are not likely to be doing reloads, malfunction clearance, etc. The B8 drills you describe and the bill drill type stuff is probably closer to the engagements you would see with a charging bear.

Yep.

Engage B8 at 25 with 10 rounds. No time limit.
Score over 90.

Then

5 rounds at 15 yards, from holster. Maybe 7 seconds?
5 rounds at 15, in 5 seconds. From a ready (already drawn) position.
5 rounds at 10 yards, 4 seconds.
5 rounds at 5 yards, 3 seconds.

I’d have to play with the time to see if that’s definitely realistic. Maybe aim for a 270 overall score. That should force mostly 9s and 10s. Maybe drop a couple in the 8 if you are pushing the speed.

What do y’all think?

That certainly is a decent drill. But, it is measuring only two things really- speed precision at the 15 and 10 yards, and and speed at yards.

The three target transition drill I wrote in the last post, is measuring first shot draw time, speed precision, target target transitions- with a throttle speed mechanism, and pure recoil control at 3.5 yards. For 9 rounds it’s making you do a lot more under time stress.

Ideally for bear/predators, you would use a lateral moving target at speed. But without that system, the 3 targets stacked in depth works pretty well when shot for a high score.

 

[MuleyFever]

@Formidilosus

I dont remember seeing anything on barrel length related to shootability, carry comfort and accuracy. Is there a barrel length that is usually the sweat spot for most people?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus.
I dont remember seeing anything on barrel length related to shootability, carry comfort and accuracy. Is there a barrel length that is usually the sweat spot for most people?

It’s really between carry and shootability.


Shorter is more comfort carry in general. But, shorter is more snappy in muzzle rise and recoil. 4” to 4.5” seems to be about the right length depending on which pistol for both carry comfort and shooting.

 

[MuleyFever]

It’s really between carry and shootability.


Shorter is more comfort carry in general. But, shorter is more snappy in muzzle rise and recoil. 4” to 4.5” seems to be about the right length depending on which pistol for both carry comfort and shooting.

If you were going for straight bear defense carry where would you end up?

 

[gbflyer]

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[Formidilosus]

Form:

119K views · 32K reactions | left hand’s nerves are turbo messed up but can still mostly function with good training fundamentals and strength training @weaponobserver @tgraff28x | Garand Thumb

left hand’s nerves are turbo messed up but can still mostly function with good training fundamentals and strength training @weaponobserver @tgraff28x.

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Pssh …. Too slow and wearing a silly outfit.

 

[HighUintas]

I'm going to try out Wasatch Holsters chest holster. I was thinking I'd have them make the muzzle end open if possible so it doesn't collect water in rain like a bucket.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus for a chest holster, is it best to have the muzzle end open if possible to prevent water collection in bad weather?

Ehh. I would rather if it is a clamshell or two piece design, I would prefer it squeezed closed. Fully open just all way crap in easily.

 

[Formidilosus]

When I was loading 45 Super, I was using the 275 grain WFN (kind of a Ranch Dog profile, actually) from Hunter Supply, as I was guessing that shape might be about the best all around profile from an auto and was leaning toward bullet weight as much as possible. It's made for 45LC, etc, but fed great in my 1911s.


The 275 is on the left (obviously)
View attachment 868673

That 275gr looks pretty good.

Right now I'm experimenting with 158SWC sized to .356. Using BE86, 1,000 - 1,050 is working fine and so far they're feeding fine. There's a 158SWC from Stateline bullets that has a wider meplat, but I don't have any yet to test feeding in my pistols.

38 cal 158 gr SWC H&G 51 Cast Bullets - Stateline Bullets

38 Cal 158 gr SWC for reloading. This hard lead cast bullet is a authentic Hensley & Gibbs 51 by Phil Sharpe. H&G 51 a favorite for the 38 Special 357 Mag.

statelinebullets.com

I've never bought "bear defense" loads specifically, but I was looking at Underwood and noticed they may have changed their 147 FP from what I've been using to something more like that Ranch Dog profile. I haven't looked at any, but since I can't find 147s quite like that, I'm going to take a look at them. If we're talking minutiae, which I am anyway, I'd think that bullet might work really well in 9mm for these purposes.
Older Underwood - look like typical 147s.
View attachment 868680

Newest Underwood - looks like maybe a slightly better bullet design.
View attachment 868681

The newer Underwood 9mm looks decent as well.

 

[Formidilosus]

If you were going for straight bear defense carry where would you end up?

In that 4 inch range.

 

[jonpall]

Wish they made the hard cast underwood in a non +p version.

 

[Formidilosus]

Wish they made the hard cast underwood in a non +p version.

Very much so.

 

[HighUintas]

Very much so.

If you're shooting uncoated lead bullets, do you still not clean the bore at all? In my experience shooting a 45-90 with uncoated lead, if lead builds up in the bore accuracy goes to crap.

 

[Formidilosus]

If you're shooting uncoated lead bullets, do you still not clean the bore at all? In my experience shooting a 45-90 with uncoated lead, if lead builds up in the bore accuracy goes to crap.

Nope. Hard cast. But basically any high round count with lead has been lead SWC in 1911’s.

 

[HighUintas]

Ehh. I would rather if it is a clamshell or two piece design, I would prefer it squeezed closed. Fully open just all way crap in easily.

Sorry, not trying to be a dunce but I just want to be sure.

You're saying that the first one below will allow more crap in than the second one?

 

[Formidilosus]

Sorry, not trying to be a dunce but I just want to be sure.

You're saying that the first one below will allow more crap in than the second one?

View attachment 868782

View attachment 868783

Yes. An exposed muzzle isn’t preferable to a covered/sealed one given the choice.

 

[HighUintas]

Nope. Hard cast. But basically any high round count with lead has been lead SWC in 1911’s.

I swore off screwing with uncoated lead after shooting and repeatedly scrubbing the lead out of that 1886.... Even when it was hardcast. They were all 15-16 bhn, supposedly, and they leaded that sucker up regardless of chamber pressure/powder used. The bore wasn't exactly smooth though.

Maybe it would be different with a pistol or bullets in the 20 bhn range.

 

[Formidilosus]

I swore off screwing with uncoated lead after shooting and repeatedly scrubbing the lead out of that 1886.... Even when it was hardcast. They were all 15-16 bhn, supposedly, and they leaded that sucker up regardless of chamber pressure/powder used. The bore wasn't exactly smooth though.

Maybe it would be different with a pistol or bullets in the 20 bhn range.

It’s velocity that is the difference, though my experience with rifles and lead is far less. Lead bullets get shot by the sqazillions without cleaning in pistols.

 

[HighUintas]

It’s velocity that is the difference, though my experience with rifles and lead is far less. Lead bullets get shot by the sqazillions without cleaning in pistols.

Yea... I haven't been able to find some definitive information on the cause, but I think it's likely a combination of factors.

- Starting pressure/bullet diameter/lead alloy hardness
- max pressure (and/or speed?) / lead allow hardness
- bore condition

With a pistol barrel being so short, MV generally being lower, and alloy hardness generally being higher, it's likely a non issue