Montana Rifle Co, Shoot2Hunt, and Rokslide Rifle

[PaulDogs]

Probably because you shouldn’t be putting the butt-stock on your clavicle.

Just to clarify for my own sake: are you saying instead of buttock on clavicle, the buttstock should be further out from centerline when using a field rifle? Where does the buttstock land in each position (prone, sitting, standing)? This may be difficult to describe over text.

 

[RockAndSage]

The “squared up” stance wasn’t used by the top end shooters from 2001 when I started, mans mostly isn’t now. The “tactical” world did the collapsed stock, butt pad on pec thing. The highest performing rifle shooters in 3-gun/multi-gun “shot as much rifle as they could”, meaning they extended the butt-stock all the way out or close to, and placed their support hand as far forward on the handguard as possible.







PRS shooters shoot 90% of shots from a tripod or barricade in an upright body position with 25-40lb rifles that functionally do not move. What they are doing is as nearly specialized as benchrest, and about as applicable to hunting. What happens when a rifle with actual recoil is placed on a persons “centerline” (clavicle) and is fired- especially from prone?


Furthermore, if you actually watch shooters shooting in stages and in practice you see that their shoulders are not square to the target, and they do have an angle relative to the rifle. IIRC it was MDT that did a YouTube video about “squared up” and then in all of their own shooting in the video, they are not squared up. The rifle doesn’t care how your body is angled, it cares that the surface it is recoiling against is perpendicular to the bore-line.





Probably because you shouldn’t be putting the butt-stock on your clavicle.






You I believe, like most are visualizing it as the scope stays in place relative to the rifle, and your shoulder and firing grip moves back- that is not what I am saying, nor how it should work. Instead, think- your firing hand stays in place relative to the action and barrel, but your shoulder and head move back with the scope.

In other words your problem is increasing LOP but not moving the scope back to compensate, therefore you are having to scrunch up to get eye relief- this is exaggerated by trigger reaches being too long on stocks. Don’t do that- move the scope back when you increase LOP. Then your hand and wrist are in much better alignment to press a trigger straight to the rear.





No, see above.

Thanks for explaining that, and providing the details. Much appreciated.

 

[Bluumoon]

@Imac45acp @Ryan Avery
Next poll... Sounds like actions are the limiting factor. In light of that maybe a poll on which cartridges to prioritize.

I'm gonna take a wild stab at it and say 6 CM and 22CM will be prioritized by members here. If I can get one stamped "6ish Creedmoor" chambered in in 22CM that'd be great, CO compliant and all.

 

[h2so4]

If I can get one stamped "6ish Creedmoor" chambered in in 22CM that'd be great, CO compliant and all.

I’d like to second this motion

 

[Castle Rock]

556 CM

 

[wyosam]

@Imac45acp @Ryan Avery
Next poll... Sounds like actions are the limiting factor. In light of that maybe a poll on which cartridges to prioritize.

I'm gonna take a wild stab at it and say 6 CM and 22CM will be prioritized by members here. If I can get one stamped "6ish Creedmoor" chambered in in 22CM that'd be great, CO compliant and all.

I’m pretty sure 5.56 rounds up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Since a large chunk of the potential market, especially early on, will be Rokslide members, I think @Bluumoon is on to something with a poll for chambering desires for buyers.

Would be a great way for y’all to gauge volumes…

Poll

When will you purchase:

. At Release
.Within 3 Months of Release
.Within 6 Months of Release
.Within 12 Months of Release

What Cartridge(s) will you purchase:

Blah
Blah
Blah
Blah
Blah

 

[Imac45acp]

@Imac45acp @Ryan Avery
Next poll... Sounds like actions are the limiting factor. In light of that maybe a poll on which cartridges to prioritize.

I'm gonna take a wild stab at it and say 6 CM and 22CM will be prioritized by members here. If I can get one stamped "6ish Creedmoor" chambered in in 22CM that'd be great, CO compliant and all.

I'm not sure a poll is even needed since everyone is pretty vocal on what they want. Fear not my dudes, we pay attention! Ryan, Jake, and Form's insight has been a huge asset as well. The Creeds are the priorities for the release. 6 and 22 are taking build priority, but doing most of the protos in 6.5 since we already produce it.

Would be a great way for y’all to gauge volumes…

It's hard to trust polls when it comes to build volumes. We'll get some initial stock built up and let orders take it from there. Caliber is the main differentiator between models so we can be pretty fluid on the build process.

 

[rbutcher1234]

If we are saying spuhr mounts are failure prone and don’t hold zero, what about the badger c1 max?

 

[RockAndSage]

I'm not sure a poll is even needed since everyone is pretty vocal on what they want. Fear not my dudes, we pay attention! Ryan, Jake, and Form's insight has been a huge asset as well. The Creeds are the priorities for the release. 6 and 22 are taking build priority, but doing most of the protos in 6.5 since we already produce it.


It's hard to trust polls when it comes to build volumes. We'll get some initial stock built up and let orders take it from there. Caliber is the main differentiator between models so we can be pretty fluid on the build process.

Any idea on whether you'll be doing pre-orders?

 

[Formidilosus]

Any idea on whether you'll be doing pre-orders?

Haha. NO!

 

[RockAndSage]

Haha. NO!

In that case, please be sure to do a good lead-in on the initial drop, giving everyone a heads-up in advance when orders will be accepted. As opposed to surprising everyone that suddenly orders are open, and having it be a scramble for who happened to be online the moment they're available. That's happened to a bunch of people with Maven a couple of times now - it's extremely annoying to have been away from the computer for an afternoon, or even a few hours, and be too late and need to wait a few more months.

 

[Formidilosus]

In that case, please be sure to do a good lead-in on the initial drop, giving everyone a heads-up in advance when orders will be accepted. As opposed to surprising everyone that suddenly orders are open, and having it be a scramble for who happened to be online the moment they're available. That's happened to a bunch of people with Maven a couple of times now - it's extremely annoying to have been away from the computer for an afternoon, or even a few hours, and be too late and need to wait a few more months.

I will ask them to let RS members have the first couple of days of availability.

 

[swavescatter]

Designing for desires is what plagued the Rokstock (well that and some other things).

If I was running a private business with demonstrated demand I would launch one SKU and perfect that until demand ebbed. Then maybe cater to the regards here.

But I'm a lazy Gov worker that has never run a business so there's that too

 

[HuntHarder]

This rifle is gonna be sweet

 

[Formidilosus]

Designing for desires is what plagued the Rokstock (well that and some other things).

If I was running a private business with demonstrated demand I would launch one SKU and perfect that until demand ebbed. Then maybe cater to the regards here

The Rokstock wasn’t designed around anyone’s desires but Ryan and mine. There were slight issues from unlimited options on paint and the rails.
This MRC won’t have that- the only variation is one of the common cartridges, which is easy- you won’t be ordering this from a small shop customizing every one of them. It’s a “factory” rifle in so much as that goes.

 

[DJL2]

You want the longer LOP.


It is interesting, I have stated for years on here that the common LOP of 13.5” is too short for a large percentage of the male population, and that it is actually a result of poor stock dimensions. Now that people are using the Rokstok, about half really need a 14.5” LOP to be perfect.

I'm built like a damn Dachshund and have the opposite problem.... the old 13 1/8" is perfect for me and I find almost every factory stock (at around 13 3/4" I thought) too long. Finding a short enough stock is equally challenging.

 

[DJL2]

I think case geometry can possibly have an effect, but don't know for sure. I haven't seen any definitive evidence to support the statement that it is a myth.

The primary factors are powder mass/quantity and burn rate, pressure is your LIMFAC. Case geometry can certainly change how that pressure builds; you can see that in folks making similar muzzle energy out of less powder mass. However, if you're optimizing the powder choice for the application, I think you're coloring on the margins re: case geometry versus barrel length choice. You might consider running a few scenarios through GRT or Quick Load just for the purposes of approximation.

 

[Stocky]

That is a myth.

I think there's an argument to be made based on physics that a shorter case will preform better than a longer case all else being held equal ie same useable powder capacity, same bullet, same pressure, same powder etc.

Purely because the barrel length is measured from the bolt face and as such the shorter case has a marginally longer distance under which it is being driven by pressure.

This can be seen in 7SAUM vs 280AI with like for like loadings if modeled in GRT or quickload. Area under the graph is what gives the bullet its final speed and by increasing the length you increase the ability to do so by slightly increasing the time pressure acts on it.

In saying that your talking a bullet travel difference of like 0.5" but if you add that to an action thats 0.5" shorter you've gained approximately 1" in the same barrel and action length ie a short action with a 21inch barrel would be the same oal as a long with a 20". (Its nothing but its something)

While the above isn't always true depending on the action used ie all tikkas being long action etc. On the principles it would have to be proven false i would think.

 

[Formidilosus]

I think there's an argument to be made based on physics that a shorter case will preform better than a longer case all else being held equal ie same useable powder capacity, same bullet, same pressure, same powder etc.

Purely because the barrel length is measured from the bolt face and as such the shorter case has a marginally longer distance under which it is being driven by pressure.

This can be seen in 7SAUM vs 280AI with like for like loadings if modeled in GRT or quickload. Area under the graph is what gives the bullet its final speed and by increasing the length you increase the ability to do so by slightly increasing the time pressure acts on it.

In saying that your talking a bullet travel difference of like 0.5" but if you add that to an action thats 0.5" shorter you've gained approximately 1" in the same barrel and action length ie a short action with a 21inch barrel would be the same oal as a long with a 20". (Its nothing but its something)

While the above isn't always true depending on the action used ie all tikkas being long action etc. On the principles it would have to be proven false i would think.

That’s not what was being discussed.