Mono Wound Channels vs Match Bullets

[zdc1775]

I cant compare to a TMK but here is the meat loss I had on the front shoulder of a deer with a .223 55gn TTSX. The bullet was a pass thru with a tiny .223 hole on the entry side and a perfect near .5" hole on the exit side indicating full mushroom as designed.
View attachment 749518

I have shot the 62 grain ttsx with a mv of 2950 quite a bit over the past 4 or 5 years, and have seen similar damage on shots at less than about 50 yards if it hits any bones, beyond that I don't notice much meat damage unless it actually hits the shoulder and even then it is much less. But based on what I have seen I wouldn't want to use it at more than 250-275 yards on deer because I don't know if it would have any expansion beyond that. I do know that it has no detectable expansion at 400 on coyotes, the entry and exit wound on that one were both roughly caliber sized and I didn't notice any real internal damage when I skinned it, though I didn't actually open up the chest cavity.

In my experience any of the Barnes bullets I have used cannot compare to match bullets when it comes to wound channels unless the match bullets don't expand or fragment at all, which I have only seen happen once with a 142 SMK out of a 6.5x55 at 350ish yards.

 

[Koda_]

But based on what I have seen I wouldn't want to use it at more than 250-275 yards on deer because I don't know if it would have any expansion beyond that.

Agree with that. I played around in a ballistic calculator to estimate my velocity at range and to stay above 2000fps, 275 maybe 300 seems about max if i recall....
The 223 is effective, but I dont think of it as a long range hunting rifle.

 

[hibernation]

I've been very happy with our results shooting TTSX and LRX's in 10 different cartridges.
I prefer not to ruin a bunch of meat and have had no problem killing with the Barnes......no masses of bloodshot meat and no drama..I will say I don't shoot beyond 500 yards.

What cartridges and distances? I've used the TTSX out of a 30-06 a decent amount, looking to downsize and wondering how well they work out of smaller cartridges.

 

[KHntr]

I would be curious for one of the folks on here that have a hot rod rifle hurling monos at 3400 fps and what wound channels they get. I still doubt they make channels like a fragmenting bullet.

I used to shoot moly’d 168 TTSX out of a 300 RUM at 3450fps as my moose and elk rifle. I killed a lot of bulls in the rut at around 100 yards or less, and could typically count on losing less than 5lbs of meat even on square broadside shots through shoulders.
Shooting elk that close though, they typically got shot more than once because they would still be kicking and flopping when I walked up to them.

Now I use a 223AI with 88gr ELD m’s.
85% less recoil, 75% less powder, 48% less bullet, to get 200% of the wound channel for 85% of the penetration length. And I shoot them half as many times because they are dead faster.

 

[PistolPete]

I used to shoot moly’d 168 TTSX out of a 300 RUM at 3450fps as my moose and elk rifle. I killed a lot of bulls in the rut at around 100 yards or less, and could typically count on losing less than 5lbs of meat even on square broadside shots through shoulders.
Shooting elk that close though, they typically got shot more than once because they would still be kicking and flopping when I walked up to them.

Now I use a 223AI with 88gr ELD m’s.
85% less recoil, 75% less powder, 48% less bullet, to get 200% of the wound channel for 85% of the penetration length. And I shoot them half as many times because they are dead faster.

Now there's a testimonial!

I'm going to add this info to my presentation to my state agency's committees in attempting to legalize 223s for deer and bear...

 

[KHntr]

Now there's a testimonial!

I'm going to add this info to my presentation to my state agency's committees in attempting to legalize 223s for deer and bear...

Back when the kids were still home, my gf at the time and her daughter plus my 2 all shot deer at the same feeder from the same blind. They all had the exact same shot presentation, at the exact same distance (91 yards).
All 4 of them were coached to the same shot placement. 3 kids broke onside shoulders and had the little 50gr GMX break the last rib on the offside. Two exits, one caught in the hide.

GF used a 139 SST from her 7/08 (about as middle ground of a whitetail cartridge and bullet combo as it gets) in the same presentation and bullet placement and that buck wobbled to the middle of where the other 3 tipped over, and died. That bullet didn’t break the last rib, but it was superficially stuck to it on the inside.

Bullets and twist rates and construction matter. Headstamps do not.

 

[Sundodger]

Wow, some people sure are taking a very reasonable question by the OP (that’s phrased quite elegantly) to some very strange places.



Bullets apply kinetic energy (if looking at the whole event) or force (if looking instantaneously via position) or power (if looking respect to time) to tissue. How much and how they apply that results in the wound cavity.



Maybe phrased this way will help some people:

If you take a projectile X that is very good at converting KE into maximum tissue damage and replace it will projectile Y that isn’t as good at converting KE into tissue damage, how much more KE will it need to have similar total tissue damage as projectile X.