MK5 HD vs NX8 . . Thoughts?

[Bubblehide]

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Kinda-sorta transitioning back on topic, that group was shot with a ZCO 4-20. Definitely worth buying!

Until you drop it.

 

[Bubblehide]

Seriously LOL’ing over dudes arguing with each other thinking it’s me . Some Christmas’s must’ve been a bit harder than others. Happy Kwanza fellas.
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Your such a sensitive thoughtful guy, thanks!

 

[tdhanses]

In the end all that matter‘s is your scope performs when it matters after an accident, normal use or after traveling, lol. We all want to baby our gear but in reality if we use it there‘s always a chance, I’m sold on my NX8 and it does what i bought it to do, be an aiming device I can rely on, in the end if anyones optic does that it‘s all we can ask. I do know most optics would not handle having you fall on it on top of rocks and ice with your full body weight uncontrolled with the side of the optic taking the brunt of the abuse, I bought my NX8 due to NF being known for reliability and i like a scope that can go down to around 2x, for me it ticked all the boxes and I’m very happy with it.

Glass is the last thing I care about in a rifle scope, I don’t want a failure and failures can happen so I’ll keep trusting NF. Nothing is for everyone and if someone gave me a MK5 for free i’d take it in a heart beat and sell it to get another NX8

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Yep, typical internet silliness. You read NX8 failures just like MK5, just like ATACR, just like Razor, just like S&B, blah blah blah. MK5 outsells NX8 so you’ll hear more anecdotal stories - pretty basic numbers game. Not to mention, there’s a whole host of folks that don’t know how to mount an optic and are more than willing to blame gear over their own shortcomings.

The 2.5-20 NX8 is a marketing turd for those that want all the zooms. It is a poorly executed design. The reticles are a poor fit to the magnification range, controls are meh, eyebox sucks, parallax is finicky, optics suck, dims on high mag, etc. Jeff Huber (who brought Nightforce from the SFP benchrest world to the modern practical/field rifle world) has talked about the optical & mechanical downsides of an 8x erector.

But I get it, Nightforce sends a bunch of stickers and the box tells you it’s rELIabLe and RepEaTABle. I’ve since sold my MK5, but it tracked 100% and I had no issues holding zero or otherwise nor did I have fears of failure that kept me up at night.

Like I said, if you need an NF logo to make you feel warm and fuzzy, get an ATACR. The cost difference is minimal, the weight difference is minimal, and the ATACR is a notably better overall package compared to the NX8.

NX8 is a POS. Not to mention nightforce sponsors all these forums and the nightforce failure threads seem to get deleted.

 

[woods89]

NX8 is a POS. Not to mention nightforce sponsors all these forums and the nightforce failure threads seem to get deleted.

I've seen you mention this a couple times now. Where are you getting this from? Nightforce is not on the sponsor list.

As far as Leupold goes, from what I can tell Ryan Avery and Jeff Brozevich are not fans either. And Pat Sinclair had a T&E thread on the 'fire that suddenly stopped getting updated. Everybody's free to make their own call, but that's good enough for me.

 

[Flyjunky]

Actually Form has ran them through is torture tests and Nightforce has been the ONLY reliable manufacturer that holds and returns to zero.

Granted the NX8 has a short eyebox, but the key is mounting it in the correct position. Simply bgg use a rail and it's not a problem. Granted the ATACR is a better scope without a short eyebox.

Actually, you need to read the scope tests over on snipers hide and some accompanying information on what nightforce says when someone returns a scope with issues. They tell people nothing was wrong, yet somehow the scope comes back and now functions correctly. It sure helps with the "reliability" verbiage when they don't even admit there is a problem.

There are only a couple of scopes that have had 100% accurate, reliable tracking across several models in the snipershide testing, and nightforce isn't one of them. For instance, they tested 15 5-25 Atacr's and 6 of those didn't track 100% correctly. Yet, at the same time, they tested 4 7-35 Atacr's and they all tracked perfect. Even though Kahles had some issues at one time all the scopes they tested from Kahles tracked perfect, yet you can go on the internet and see tons of people that have had issues with them. Basically, it's a crap shoot what you get with any particular scope.

I've been researching scopes for the past 3 months, literally hundreds of pages read and I've talked with many people. Like some have said above and I've commented on this in the past, the numbers of scopes sold by each company has something to do with what we hear on the internet as well.

I'm not a fanboy of any scope company and right now my top 3 scopes, in no particular order, for my upcoming build are:
1. MK5 3.6-18
2. Atacr 4-20
3. ZCO 4-20

As you can see, I'm not a hater on NF, but the fanboys need to realize their scopes have issues as well, just like any other company.

 

[Flyjunky]

Can we get some deets about what happened to your ZCO? Definitely interested.

I would like to know as well because that scope is on my short list of options.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I've seen you mention this a couple times now. Where are you getting this from? Nightforce is not on the sponsor list.

As far as Leupold goes, from what I can tell Ryan Avery and Jeff Brozevich are not fans either. And Pat Sinclair had a T&E thread on the 'fire that suddenly stopped getting updated. Everybody's free to make their own call, but that's good enough for me.

I have witnessed it several times over on LRH. Including sharing my experience with a buddies ATACR crapping out on a once in a lifetime alaskan moose hunt.

Here is the reality of the NX8 - it’s lightweight meaning they had to cut something somewhere. It’s not an ATACR, nowhere as tough. It’s a 30mm Japanese built scope. There are lots of those out there.

 

[woods89]

I have witnessed it several times over on LRH. Including sharing my experience with a buddies ATACR crapping out on a once in a lifetime alaskan moose hunt.

Here is the reality of the NX8 - it’s lightweight meaning they had to cut something somewhere. It’s not an ATACR, nowhere as tough. It’s a 30mm Japanese built scope. There are lots of those out there.

Ok. I thought you were talking about Rokslide. I've seen plenty of negative opinions about optics sponsors here and never seen it deleted. I have very little experience on LRH, so I can't speak to that.

 

[justin davis]

I have witnessed it several times over on LRH. Including sharing my experience with a buddies ATACR crapping out on a once in a lifetime alaskan moose hunt.

Here is the reality of the NX8 - it’s lightweight meaning they had to cut something somewhere. It’s not an ATACR, nowhere as tough. It’s a 30mm Japanese built scope. There are lots of those out there.

Interesting. I have a NXS and it’s an awesome scope. Never once have I had an issue. I think everyone can have issues with everything but I’ve heard more issues with leupold holding zero than Nightforce

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Interesting. I have a NXS and it’s an awesome scope. Never once have I had an issue. I think everyone can have issues with everything but I’ve heard more issues with leupold holding zero than Nightforce

What leupolds tho? They make a scope in about every price category. The Mark 5hds? I haven’t seen a lot of negative stuff about them.

 

[justin davis]

What leupolds tho? They make a scope in about every price category. The Mark 5hds? I haven’t seen a lot of negative stuff about them.

Yea just in general. I haven’t heard any negatives on the Mark 5HDs

 

[Oregonmuley]

Up until this morning I would of said Nightforce 100% but now not so sure. Couple weeks ago ordered a new NF scope and when I opened the box no little red rubber thingy with the "Zero Stop" logo on it that sits on the elevation turret.

Emailed NF and was told the caps have been discontinued - how could I possible buy another or suggest them to anyone else

 

[BigPrince]

Not perfect pics but I chose 2 out of these 3 for my primary and backup hunting rifles this year. Sold the Mk5. Might buy another in PR2 one day but thought it was the loser out of these 3 options in image quality and I've heard concerns with losing zeros.

Side note - I did not like the NX8 2.5-20. While the Mk5 has CA issues the NX8 2.5 was worse to me. I'd go 4-32 and have been happy with it for a 'lighter' weight hunting scope.

 

[Bubblehide]

Between your three choices, I'd go with the ZCO. I haven't had the NF 4-20, but NF would have had to significantly upgrade everything in the 4-20 compared to the 4-16 to compete with the ZCO. But the Nightforce is a bit less money, and you wouldn't expect the two optics to directly compete either. I've seen several barely used NF 4-20 sell for about $2,500 on SnipersHide. Sport Optics has a demo NF 4-20 right now that would save you a bit of money over the ZCO. Even a used ZCO 4-20 will be in the $3,500 range. The Leupy also doesn't compete with ZCO, but it is lighter and quite a bit cheaper if that is what makes your decision.

Drop testing is pretty silly, but if that's your thing, some dude did drop his ZCO quite a bit on video. I'm not on Facebook, but I think this is the link


@Bubblehide don't leave us hanging man, let's hear about your ZCO experience.

Out in the field drops actually happen, alot. Now I can see if your a bench rest hunter, and you carry it in a royal blanky from you car to the bench, laying it on pillows, the you would think a drop test is silly. But for a guy that actually gets out into wild areas, traversing them, well, droping your rifle actually happens from time to time, and surviving that is extremely important.

As for ZCO, I have already explained it. You read what I wrote, and questioned it when you should have accepted it.

 

[woods89]

Out in the field drops actually happen, alot. Now I can see if your a bench rest hunter, and you carry it in a royal blanky from you car to the bench, laying it on pillows, the you would think a drop test is silly. But for a guy that actually gets out into wild areas, traversing them, well, droping your rifle actually happens from time to time, and surviving that is extremely important.

As for ZCO, I have already explained it. You read what I wrote, and questioned it when you should have accepted it.

I feel like anybody that flies with a rifle benefits from some drop testing.

 

[Bubblehide]

Which ZCO model do you/did you own? What kind of drop occurred? Did you send it back for repair?

4x20x50 FF1. The rifle left my hands at waist level as I tripped over some rocks as my boot caught them. The scope showed normal wear so ZCO ended up covering it; but it was purchased through a large purchaser, not me directly.

 

[BBob]

If I were to trip over rocks and drop my rifle 3 feet into the ground I don't think I'd say my particular model/manufacturer was crap if it didn't hold zero after the drop. If it did that'd be great but I'm not sure I'd expect it to be 100% if I did. Way too many variables on how hard and how it was hit. Obviously some are pretty good (hotly debated which are best) at handling drops but man I don't think that would be my expectation every time with any scope regardless of reputation. I do like these debates because it at least gives an idea of which scopes might fair well with abuse.

 

[Formidilosus]

If I were to trip over rocks and drop my rifle 3 feet into the ground I don't think I'd say my particular model/manufacturer was crap if it didn't hold zero after the drop. If it did that'd be great but I'm not sure I'd expect it to be 100% if I did. Way too many variables on how hard and how it was hit. Obviously some are pretty good (hotly debated which are best) at handling drops but man I don't think that would be my expectation every time with any scope regardless of reputation. I do like these debates because it at least gives an idea of which scopes might fair well with abuse.

Why not? It is quite possible to make a scope as reliable and durable as conventional iron sights- a 3ft drop shouldn’t effect them. Scopes are literally a device that steer lethal projectiles, and yet the market accepts that they don’t do they’re primary job.

Scopes are pathetic and fragile because the market continues to make excuses for poor performance. The internet talks nonstop about “glass”, “features”, “magnification range”. Only recently about “tracking”, and never about zero retention in real use.
People yack constantly about the “use” they inflict upon their gear, and yet when you see the items look like they’ve never left the package. A rifle tips over from a bipod and they have panic attack. The whole thing is a joke.
The people saying they never drop their rifle or have it hit the ground hard- that says a lot about how you hunt. There is terrain where there is zero chance that the rifle won’t hit the ground. I hunted with someone this year that said exactly that- NEVER drop a rifle, you have to be stupid…. in three days his rifle took no less than 5 major impacts- drops to save his butt from from sliding down a shale slide, after the second time sliding and the rifle bashing himself in the face from the Gun Bearer, it went on the side of the pack which then had multiple heavy impacts when strapped to the side of the pack and slipping. Low and behold, the rifle had lost zero to the point that it couldn’t hit a deer at 300.


Scopes should hold zero, there is no excuse for them not to.

 

[BBob]

Why not? It is quite possible to make a scope as reliable and durable as conventional iron sights- a 3ft drop shouldn’t effect them. Scopes are literally a device that steer lethal projectiles, and yet the market accepts that they don’t do they’re primary job.

Scopes are pathetic and fragile because the market continues to make excuses for poor performance at their primary job.

Well I suppose they could but do I want to carry that heavy tube that's thick enough to not bend when I land on it in the rocks? It's all a balance and yeah I want it as tough and reliable as possible but what will a totally reliable optic weigh and would I want to carry it into the mountains?