Military Shed Horn Hunting

[mtwarden]

Prerial date is tentatively September 18.

Even if these guys somehow avoid to be convicted, I can't imagine their commander(s) would condone landing a helicopter on public or private ground to hunt for sheds.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I'm not at all ashamed to claim I've never signed up for the military , if that's what you're getting at.

From what many here have said, it appears that being in the military somehow exempts one from laws
and ethics civilians are expected to observe. Not something to be proud about.

Anyone hear any updates?

No. I don’t think anyone was trying to shame you for not serving. Just pointing out that you don’t have much - if any - experience with military justice. Some of us have extensive experience in this sphere.

No one is saying that military personnel should be exempt from laws and ethics. But your statements demonstrated a lack of understanding of the difference between the various discharge types and their collateral consequences. Getting a dishonorable discharge, for example, requires a felony conviction. And it carries legal penalties beyond a felony conviction.

The legal penalties also aren’t the end of the story. The collateral consequences - how our society treats those who receive such discharges - of the other than honorable (OTH), bad conduct discharge (BCD) or dishonorable discharge (DD) are quite severe. Particularly when it comes to eligibility for employment and loans.

If these personnel manage to avoid an OTH, BCD, or DD, they can consider themselves very lucky and thank their lawyers profusely.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[Diamondback]

From what many here have said, it appears that being in the military somehow exempts one from laws
and ethics civilians are expected to observe. Not something to be proud about.

Do you wish to share anymore of your wisdom?
Tell us all about your vast knowledge and experience while YOU served in the military and how it all really works? I'm all ears.

 

[ThorM465]

Such an embarrassing and egregious unethical crime all for getting “bone” for pictures and likes I bet. People are obsessed for sheds now. Helicopter traffic in MT is insane, on a sheep hunt last fall near Yellowstone we had this private helicopter flying very low around our spike camp for 4 days straight. I fantasize about having a rocket launcher for this rich California DBs.

"Egregious and unethical crime" Some of you here need to gain a littler perspective. The Hollier than though attitude on this forum is really getting tiresome.

Assuming they had no antlers, then they were dumbasses doing stupid things with million dollar equipment on my dime. Lol, in case you haven't noticed, I still live in America too, and most of the guys on this forum do. That has nothing to do with due process, it has everything to with abuse of the situation that they weren't mature enough to handle, so why were they entrusted with the situation to begin with?

Egos are bigger than brains.

You're dime? Unless you signed that blank check you can not so kindly go choke yourself with this attitude. We send 17 year olds off to die in war. If we only sent mature men then we'd have no one to send, so why don't you come off your high horse and give these kids a little room to blow off steam. If it weren't for immature boys that go off to war you wouldn't be enjoying the world you clearly have no appreciation for.

Well, a 20 (?) something year old employee of mine, whose training I paid for, using my helicopter to do this when he should be working for me would be fired without getting any job references from me . Sounds like a dishonorable discharge would be a similar penalty, so Yeah, dishonorable discharge seems very appropriate.

See above and add a bill of whatever the going rate for use of a helo of that caliber is per hour
and add whatever legal penalties would be levied against John Q Public for using my privately
owned helo to trespass and steal property that's not his/their own.

In case anyone missed it the first time. Some of you need to get a little perspective.

What would the charges be if a black hawk landed in my yard and I freaked out and felt threatened and decided to put a round in all of them?

I haven’t done anything wrong and feel my life is threatened in the moment, I made a simple mistake so I guess they should just yell at me and move on!

Imagine being that lady, she may have thought the world was coming to an end?

Making shed hunting illegal would stop nothing, Colorado has a shed season, it’s virtually ignored from what I’ve seen!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IDK, can you be criminally charged for s**ting your own pants?

Reading through this it is abundantly clear who didn't have the intestinal fortitude to sign that blank check. Just to be clear I'm not attacking anyone for not serving, I'm attacking the tremendous amount of insecurity some of you carry over it and project on to those currently serving.

I hope those of you that are so up in arms over this have at least some appreciation of how sheltered of a life you live. You have to live a life of luxury and safety that only 0.0001% of humans have ever lived to have the luxury of getting upset over this.

I was enlisted Marine infantry some of you would absolutely have an aneurysm if you had any idea of the things we did on a regular basis.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Friend, that's BS. It is on my dime and everyone else's, unless you're writing the check to fund that specific operation they were on and had persmisson from the landowner and their commander or the Gov't to do it.

Did you use your privilege of wearing the uniform to trespass in a helicopter on private land and take things that weren't yours, as you did these "things" on a regular basis.

 

[mt terry d]

Do you wish to share anymore of your wisdom?

I asked how it "works".
I also said:
If the military decides firing squad is appropriate then that's up to them.

But I don't believe military employment absolves one of any legal consequence
outside of military compounds.

As I said, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Tell us all about your vast knowledge and experience while YOU served in the military and how it all really works? I'm all ears.

I'm only going by what some of your pals have stated here.
Take it up with them

KurtR: People minds would be blown if they new the shit that went on at a regular guard drill weekend. Get a bunch of guys together with some cool stuff its a recipe for fun

KurtR: am I surprised not in the least the shit we did in guards would make you hard ass operators faint. Hell even buddies in the regular branches did shit that civilians would never be able to comprehend.

Bamf_P: Hell I did a lot worse shit in the regular Army in the 90’s…

ThorM465: I was enlisted Marine infantry some of you would absolutely have an aneurysm if you had any idea of the things we did on a regular basis

Seems like a pretty low bar, but what do I know; I've never been a government employee.

 

[ThorM465]

Friend, that's BS. It is on my dime and everyone else's, unless you're writing the check to fund that specific operation they were on and had persmisson from the landowner and their commander or the Gov't to do it.

Did you use your privilege of wearing the uniform to trespass in a helicopter on private land and take things that weren't yours, as you did these "things" on a regular basis.

You're expectations are absurd. Stop expecting men in uniform to be robots. There has to be some room of margin for these men to operate. You can expect zero waste all you want, but its never going to happen. Unreasonable exceptions aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Reasonable expectations are a much more effective tool.

Let me ask you this. If the "Gov't" or their CO had given them permission would you consider what they did acceptable actions on their part? You absolutely would not, so save me that line of nonsense.

You're acting as though they landed in someone's back yard. I haven't even herd anyone point out that they damaged their property or even disturbed the ranchers herds. This very likely could have been a wide open stretch where it wasn't clear if it was private or public and did zero damage or harm in the process. They were out trying to get in their flight hours to remain certified during their duty weekend and saw a shiny set of sheds. Until you can show me direct damage or harm save your self righteous indignation.

Lastly, I'll add this. You clearly have no idea of the scale of waste that occurs as SOP within our government if this "waste" even makes your radar.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Sounds like you're one of the guys that might have been in that helicopter if it was another day and age, and you have a different opinion of how things went down and standards that apply. Carry on.

 

[ThorM465]

Sounds like you're one of the guys that might have been in that helicopter if it was another day and age, and you have a different opinion of how things went down and standards that apply. Carry on.

I don't have any opinion of how things went down, as I don't have any details on what actually happened. That's the point.

The truth is if the military was made up of men as noble as yourself, we'd never win a war, hell we'd never win a battle. Some of you want these men dishonorably discharged when this should be an article 15 at worst.

Wisdom is understanding that Jack Nicholson was the hero in A Few Good Men.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Sounds good. You certainly seem to know what you're talking about. With that said, you and Tom Cruise have something in common from Jack Nicholson's point of view.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Don't confuse yourself my friend. I have many military friends and family members. They agree it's wrong what those guys did representing the uniform. I guess there's different opinions even in the military of what's right and wrong.

Being thankful for those that fought and died and continue to represent this country is not what we're talking about here. It's a shame how that card gets played when someone in the military is called out for behavior, then we're not thankful enough for them. Good luck to you.

 

[Diamondback]

I'll say this, what that Blackhawk crew did was stupid, their chain of command and law enforcement will handle what happens to them. They will have a lot of painful retraining / professional development in their future on how things usually work. No one was hurt, no property was damaged, no loss of life. The shed antlers can be placed back where they were taken from, etc. It's up to law enforcement and their chain of command to determine their outcome.

Understand that the vast majority of military are in their 20's, early 30's. The younger ones will make mistakes and face corrective training / professional development from time to time as they learn, develop, and grow. They become older more mature adults that make better decisions over time.

 

[ThorM465]

Don't confuse yourself my friend. I have many military friends and family members. They agree it's wrong what those guys did representing the uniform. I guess there's different opinions even in the military of what's right and wrong.

Being thankful for those that fought and died and continue to represent this country is not what we're talking about here. It's a shame how that card gets played when someone in the military is called out for behavior, then we're not thankful enough for them. Good luck to you.

This is why I started my original response off on this one with the observation that some of you need to gain some perspective. There is a world of difference between "this wasn't acceptable and shouldn't happen again" and the average response here that ranged anywhere from these guys careers should be destroyed to they should be given an dishonorable discharge branding them felons and taking away any veterans benefits that they've already earned through their service. The fact that you can't see the difference here is astounding.

Bottom line: If I have to choice between who I want in a foxhole with me, these guys or someone who shares your overly idealistic views, I'm choosing those guys 10 out of 10 times. If your "military" friends share your same extreme views on this incident, I wouldn't want them anywhere near my foxhole. In a proper military, this is the most important metric.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Good discussion all around. Those guys made a mistake, and it has to come down to moving on and moving forward.

 

[KurtR]

I asked how it "works".
I also said:
If the military decides firing squad is appropriate then that's up to them.

But I don't believe military employment absolves one of any legal consequence
outside of military compounds.

As I said, please correct me if I'm wrong.


I'm only going by what some of your pals have stated here.
Take it up with them

KurtR: People minds would be blown if they new the shit that went on at a regular guard drill weekend. Get a bunch of guys together with some cool stuff its a recipe for fun

KurtR: am I surprised not in the least the shit we did in guards would make you hard ass operators faint. Hell even buddies in the regular branches did shit that civilians would never be able to comprehend.

Bamf_P: Hell I did a lot worse shit in the regular Army in the 90’s…

ThorM465: I was enlisted Marine infantry some of you would absolutely have an aneurysm if you had any idea of the things we did on a regular basis

Seems like a pretty low bar, but what do I know; I've never been a government employee.

Ya and i wrote they were in the wrong and should get punished no different than if you drove your toyota prius out there and trespassed. What is it a fine for trespassing but you want them charged with felonies.

The bar isnt low at all its something you cant understand if you havent been part of it.