Mil is SUPERIOR

[mstei4]

10ths is way easier and one is much less likely to make a mistake, so no, one does not always get the same end result, not the same end result with the same speed and ease.

How does it make it less likely to make a mistake? It all boils down to having a ratio of some sort to convert wind and distance to a holdover or a dial. If that’s done correctly then you hit where you intend

 

[XLR]

Yes, it can be done in MOA but when you are in the field and have to do 13 clicks then divide that by 4 I do feel like it is a little easier to get confused. I would personally rather go to 1.3 mils and call it a day! The purpose of this post was more to get guys thinking about their rifle number and how they can do quick and accurate wind holds on the fly. I knew that if I named it Mil is superior we would get some good pushback and it draw more people's attention! Get all of this figured out while you are sitting on the couch now because 6 months from today when you are in Colorado and see that 360 bull that you have been dreaming about, a proper wind call will give you confidence in your shot. It is irritating how easy the math is to do, and there are still people just holding a little into the wind and sending it. I also wanted to focus on bringing light to the bucking the wind argument here! Run the numbers and see what the extra 100 fps gains you at 500, 600, or even 700 yards. The risk to reward is very minimal!

 

[GSPHUNTER]

If you put two guys together, one a MIL guy the other a MOA, they will argue till the end of time and when it's all over, they are both right. It's what you are more familiar with. For older shooters switching from one to the other can be a little confusing at first not to mention the cost of switching scopes. For beginners, go out and try both. Do you think in yards or meter, depending on which one, you will be better choosing the one that goes with how you think.

 

[XLR]

If you put two guys together, one a MIL guy the other a MOA, they will argue till the end of time and when it's all over, they are both right. It's what you are more familiar with. For older shooters switching from one to the other can be a little confusing at first not to mention the cost of switching scopes. For beginners, go out and try both. Do you think in yards or meter, depending on which one, you will be better choosing the one that goes with how you thin

It is also good to see what your hunting parter is shooting and whether you are going to be depending on them for giving you a correction. I know that personally if a buddy is hunting with me I will not rely on him if I do have to take a follow-up shot. I will be able to see my own impact and make a correction. But if you are shooting an 8 lb 300 rum and you cannot spot your shot then having a buddy on his scope to say come down 1 moa is smart. This is all stuff to plan out this time of the year instead of the week before hunting!

 

[GSPHUNTER]

It is also good to see what your hunting parter is shooting and whether you are going to be depending on them for giving you a correction. I know that personally if a buddy is hunting with me I will not rely on him if I do have to take a follow-up shot. I will be able to see my own impact and make a correction. But if you are shooting an 8 lb 300 rum and you cannot spot your shot then having a buddy on his scope to say come down 1 moa is smart. This is all stuff to plan out this time of the year instead of the week before hunting!

110% correct.

 

[ddavis_1313]

Between all of us, we do have a wide variety! The list includes Nightforce ATACR, Nightforce NX8, Leupold Mark 5, and a Burris RT25. They all have their ups and downs though!

Just curious. Needing to pick up some glass for a 300 prc I’m having built. Trying to decide between 4-32 nx8 or atacr 4-20. Will be going on a 7.5 - 7.75 pound rifle. I’d like to be able to dial out to a mile which I don’t think I can do with the nx8. But I really like the extra magnification when trying to judge animals at distance. I don’t always have a spotter with me.


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[XLR]

I run the 5-25 atacr and really like it! You can typically make out a big frame buck from a mile away at 25 power! Good glass trumps magnification and the Atacr does shine when the mirage gets bad.

 

[ddavis_1313]

I run the 5-25 atacr and really like it! You can typically make out a big frame buck from a mile away at 25 power! Good glass trumps magnification and the Atacr does shine when the mirage gets bad.

Thoughts on weight of the 5-25 vs the nx8?


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[XLR]

Thoughts on weight of the 5-25 vs the nx8?


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Personally, I can justify the weight difference. Right now that scope is on my PRS rifle and the other night I dropped it off the top of my tripod (4 ft) right on the top turret. Now let me point out that is a 25 lb rifle. I took it out to the range and the POI had shifted but it still functioned just fine. I ran it all weekend and nothing seemed to have broken. For that reason alone I can justify the extra 11 oz.

 

[ddavis_1313]

Personally, I can justify the weight difference. Right now that scope is on my PRS rifle and the other night I dropped it off the top of my tripod (4 ft) right on the top turret. Now let me point out that is a 25 lb rifle. I took it out to the range and the POI had shifted but it still functioned just fine. I ran it all weekend and nothing seemed to have broken. For that reason alone I can justify the extra 11 oz.

Makes sense. I’ve heard the atacr is built like a tank


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[XLR]

Makes sense. I’ve heard the atacr is built like a tank


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I have broken a lot of scopes and obviously, I am very hard on stuff! I have tipped that rifle over on concrete benches, hit it on barricades, and everything else known to man and it has held up! I have been really impressed with how bulletproof it has been so far!

 

[wind gypsy]

I'm still trying to understand why its hard to do the same thing in MOA? My 6.5 is a 6 MPH gun with an MOA scope. For every hundred yards its 1 click to 800 yards. Simple. Just like if it was a MIL scope it would be an 8 MPH gun for every click. Seems simple either way?

Dividing by 4 with MOA is the difference but I'd agree it aint exactly a complex equation to figure out what 6 clicks means on a MOA scope. On bigger wind holds the added simplicity of Mils is worth it to me but if we're being honest, most of us don't have the skills that we should to be shooting at game once the wind holds start getting bigger.

 

[ddavis_1313]

I have broken a lot of scopes and obviously, I am very hard on stuff! I have tipped that rifle over on concrete benches, hit it on barricades, and everything else known to man and it has held up! I have been really impressed with how bulletproof it has been so far!

Thoughts on the 4-20 atacr for shooting out to a mile? (Would be a rare occasion for fun as this is a dedicated hunting rig)


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[XLR]

Thoughts on the 4-20 atacr for shooting out to a mile? (Would be a rare occasion for fun as this is a dedicated hunting rig)


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I am sure it can be done. We have a 1/2 moa plate at 2000 here and I have shot it with my 5-25. It looks pretty darn small through there but good glass trumps magnification!

 

[Justin Crossley]

I don't understand the argument that mils make it less likely to make a mistake dialing? Consider what your turret looks like as you make the corrections below.

Random Example: Mule deer buck standing broadside at 600 yards. You're shooting a 6.5mm 140 Berger VLD at 2800 FPS muzzle velocity. The wind is blowing 10 mph from 9 o'clock.

Correction in mils is up 3.74 and left 1.06 mils. You need to count 7 clicks past the 3 mil mark for your elevation dial.

Correction in moa is up 12.84 and left 3.63 moa. You need to count 3 clicks past the 12 moa mark for your elevation dial.

In that scenario, I believe you would be more likely to be off with the mil scope.

 

[ChrisAU]

Sure, in use its potato - pohtato if you learn the respective system.

How about in resale value?

What do competitive shooters overwhelmingly use?

Also, it is not imperial vs metric. Both are measure of angle.

 

[WCB]

I don't understand the argument that mils make it less likely to make a mistake dialing? Consider what your turret looks like as you make the corrections below.

Random Example: Mule deer buck standing broadside at 600 yards. You're shooting a 6.5mm 140 Berger VLD at 2800 FPS muzzle velocity. The wind is blowing 10 mph from 9 o'clock.

Correction in mils is up 3.74 and left 1.06 mils. You need to count 7 clicks past the 3 mil mark for your elevation dial.

Correction in moa is up 12.84 and left 3.63 moa. You need to count 3 clicks past the 12 moa mark for your elevation dial.

In that scenario, I believe you would be more likely to be off with the mil scope.

Or just dial 2 past the 3.5 mil mark...no idea why a guy would count 7 clicks

 

[amassi]

All of the hypotheticals that come up during these discussions- a practiced shooter will make those shots regardless of angle measurement system. So the best system really is the one someone uses well, is intuitive to them and they are familiar with.
I've seen some pretty incredible(and repeatable) shots with scopes that had mil reticles and moa turrets.
I think this argument was really born from YouTube stars fishing for clicks with clickbaity titles like "mil is superior"
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[HuntHarder]

My dad can shoot a bigger buck than your dad using an MOA scope.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Most people have drop charts taped somewhere or a ballistic calc handy when they are hunting. It becomes irrelevant. My drop charts all have MOA corrections with a 10mph wind. Super easy to do the math in my head if wind is 5 or 15 or 20 mph.