Meateater wolf podcast vs Kifaru Wolf Podcast

[wapitibob]

I lasted 10 minutes on the Eastmans podcast.

When you don't even know how Colorado got to this point, saying "some Congressman or Senator put it on the ballot", I'm done. 5 seconds on Google will get you the answer.

Colorado's hands are tied without a federally approved management plan. Bitching about wolves eating Elk and Moose does nothing to that end; we all know what they do. People assume a passed ballot measure trumps the USFWS wolf plan. The Deputy Director told me their lawyers don't know what, if any, impact the measure will have on their actions at this point. A passed measure may actually do nothing to compel the Service to bring in Wolves. Regardless, any wolf inside the state is an endangered species and until such time there is an approved plan in place which would delist them under that plan, the feds have control.
The feds didn't introduce a single wolf to Oregon, they don't need to bring any to Colorado either. If it's suitable habitat they'll come on their own.

 

[Coveyleader]

I lasted 10 minutes on the Eastmans podcast.

When you don't even know how Colorado got to this point, saying "some Congressman or Senator put it on the ballot", I'm done. 5 seconds on Google will get you the answer.

Colorado's hands are tied without a federally approved management plan. Bitching about wolves eating Elk and Moose does nothing to that end. People assume a passed ballot measure trumps the USFWS wolf plan. The Deputy Director told me their lawyers don't know what, if any, impact the measure will have on their actions at this point. A passed measure may actually do nothing to compel the Service to bring in Wolves. Regardless, any wolf inside the state is an endangered species and until such time there is an approved plan in place which would delist them under that plan, the feds have control.

Bob, I noticed that as well. Locker room talk at best.

 

[Rob Patuto]

I just so happen to have returned from a week in The Frank Church. My buddy and I guided there 25 years ago for several years. Go in in April, come out in November. We had a pretty good feel for the place back then. I knew going in the game numbers where pathetic but it was still a shocker. Not a shameless plug for my show but relevant to the conversation
The Stickbow Chronicles; Backcoutry Bears

 

[wapitibob]

Bob, I noticed that as well. Locker room talk at best.

I'd like to see these podcasts educate. There's a massive void of actual information pertaining to Wolves; who's in charge, what are the rules, what's a states position regarding control, etc. It took 30 seconds to get the number and email for both the Director and Deputy Director of the USFWS Regional office in CO. He answered my email in 1 day. I would think officials from CPW would also be easy to talk to.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I went back and listened to it again to see what I missed. The biologist talked about winter killing off the animals(which the wolves have a hand in) But she didn't talk about when this does happen, there is no quick rebound for the elk or deer. Wolves make this rebound much slower. They don't stop eating after winter. Not to mention they also make cats kill more often which adds to the slow recovery.

Of course, wolves are not in the high country during winter that makes no sense. But they are in the winter ground and calving/fawning grounds which lead to less hoofed animals in the high country/wilderness areas the next year... Seem pretty simple to me.

Another thing not really brought up is in lots of areas wolves do have other food in their ecosystem. Just go look at the millions of dollars paid out for cattle and sheep losses. They will try to eat at all costs which can help them get through the times with low ungulate populations.

Reading the comments above I wonder how many of you guys lived in an area pre-introduction and witnessed the carnage first hand. Not many I am guessing or I think you would have a different outlook. The elk didn't go nocturnal unless they figure out how to fly and bag their own shit. Another challenge with this issue is certain places like N.Idaho and NW Montana got hit much harder than places with more open terrain. Which leads to people having very different opinions on how wolves have impacted their hunting areas

The ME does a great job of reaching the masses with a pro-hunting message. But on certain topics, they seem to let people off the hook.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I just so happen to have returned from a week in The Frank Church. My buddy and I guided there 25 years ago for several years. Go in in April, come out in November. We had a pretty good feel for the place back then. I knew going in the game numbers where pathetic but it was still a shocker. Not a shameless plug for my show but relevant to the conversation
The Stickbow Chronicles; Backcoutry Bears

Its really sad isn't it.

Those winters must have been really bad!

 

[LostArra]

Its really sad isn't it.

Those winters must have been really bad!

Just asking: could it be multiple issues causing the change in game numbers in some locations? It just seems that most changes in the natural world are multifactorial. Weather, wolves, lions, habitat, climate change, hunting pressure. Take your pick or add your own. Any time less game is seen than in years past (and this could be anywhere, not just wolf states) then one issue seems to catch the blame when it's a whole host of factors actually causing a perfect storm.

(To be clear: I am NOT for introducing wolves anywhere. If Colorado is a good place for wolves I'm sure they will make it there on their own.)

 

[Ryan Avery]

Just asking: could it be multiple issues causing the change in game numbers in some locations? It just seems that most changes in the natural world are multifactorial. Weather, wolves, lions, habitat, climate change, hunting pressure. Take your pick or add your own. Any time less game is seen than in years past (and this could be anywhere, not just wolf states) then one issue seems to catch the blame when it's a whole host of factors actually causing a perfect storm.

(To be clear: I am NOT for introducing wolves anywhere. If Colorado is a good place for wolves I'm sure they will make it there on their own.)

I would agree that multiple issues are leading to decreased animal numbers in Idaho. From hunting pressure, urban sprawl and very suspect game management. But I think pre-wolf we had more room for error in regards to winter kill, predation, hunting pressure, miss management, wildfires, prescribed burns, and politics. Now we have zero room for error in many areas and the wolf is the reason IMO. Maybe if we would have let them get here on there own it would not have been so drastic on the ungulates or the wildlife management agencies.

I would love to hear just one wildlife biologist say we really ****** up!

 

[wind gypsy]

The ME does a great job of reaching the masses with a pro-hunting message. But on certain topics, they seem to let people off the hook.

They sure don't call out their guests for BS much. The Rob Bishop podcast is another example. At least they seem consistent about it.

I had a hard time swallowing Diane's take on MT elk hunting "it must be good because of all the B tags"... To steal from MTGomer's post on HuntTalk:

She should take a wolf pack dispersion map and then point to the portions of Montana where her statements about how the elk are so overpopulated and the hunting is so good are correct and see what kind of correlation she comes up with.

I mostly blame season structure more than wolves, acknowledging that wolves are a factor that would be less of a factor with better elk management and regulations in R1, R2 and NYellowstone’s resulting low numbers, but the statements about excellent elk hunting occurring in these places is patently false nonetheless.

Since I’m sure she knows this it leads me to think she’s being intentionally misleading which calls into question the validity of everything she said, in my opinion.

A liar with a PhD is still a liar.

 

[idahohikker]

Just asking: could it be multiple issues causing the change in game numbers in some locations? It just seems that most changes in the natural world are multifactorial. Weather, wolves, lions, habitat, climate change, hunting pressure. Take your pick or add your own. Any time less game is seen than in years past (and this could be anywhere, not just wolf states) then one issue seems to catch the blame when it's a whole host of factors actually causing a perfect storm.

(To be clear: I am NOT for introducing wolves anywhere. If Colorado is a good place for wolves I'm sure they will make it there on their own.)

Lol yes. And wolves are a huge factor--the factor in Central and Northern Idaho at least. 80-90% population decline in the worst areas. That's clearly not a habitat issue as biologists sometimes point to (those who are smarter than to think it's bad winters for elk).

 

[260madman]

As someone that lives in the heart of wolf country just say no. The wildlife impact is large. The bears and wolves really do a number on our deer and they’ll be onto the elk soon that were reintroduced for the third time.

The wolves will be in CO soon enough all on their own. If the people of CO want to see wolves they can go to the sanctuary to see them if it still exists. I believe it was down by Salida.

 

[dreamingbig]

I listened to the meat eater podcast.

She had some decent history but...

1. Cmon woman! You HAVE to admit that wolves have had a drastic impact on ungulate populations. Failure to admit this is absurd.

2. The hunting community has paid for the ungulate populations. To have them decimated by a new alpha predator and are opportunities taken away is unfair. The states were hamstrung by the courts and the lawsuits to implement wolf hunting until it was much too late.

If she still thinks wolves have zero impact on moose, elk and deer she is welcome to come to Washington state and study the impact.


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[WV Mountaineer]

Here is the bottom line. There are over 350 million people now living in this country. You can't mimic wildlife dynamics that occurred 250 years ago, when there was less then 1 million people and, millions of Bison roaming around. It can't be done. So there is no need to try. Yet, we can't get enough hair on our hunting asses to simply say that. As a whole. Look at this thread for proof.

No where in this world, at anytime, has apex predators lived in harmony with one another. I find it unbelievable that has become lost in modern Wildlife management. Lets protect cats, bears, and wolves in our ecosystems. With no regards to what it means for the APEX predator in those ecosystems. US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have no remorse in saying let these animals earn their spot among us. But, quit acting as if they deserve our part of it.

We have taken ungulate herds migration routes, wintering grounds, and neighborhoods in the interests of farming, development, and ranching. So it stands to reason we have to keep their unlimited killing to acceptable levels by natural predators. Concerning the human aspect of depredation, we have done this. However, to be responsible stewards, we need to do our part in keeping their predators to a minimum. Its the only responsible and just thing to do. Yet, modern wildlife management suggest we need these exploited numbers of other predators to reach a balance?

As hunters we owe hunting's future a common sense approach to this. We should all be preaching messages to let these other predators etch out a living around our APEX status. For any hunter to suggest different in incomprehensible to me.

My feelings on this will tell you which podcast I agreed with more.

 

[dreamingbig]

Completely agree. The problem is those that drove wolf reintroduction have zero interest or desire to maintain huntable populations of ungulates. It is the best weapon of anti hunting groups.


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[Idaho_Potato]

If the meareater crew doesn't support predator management how do you explain multiple bear hunt episodes and a mountain lion episode on their TV show? Just because they "enjoy" or "like" bears lions and wolves doesn't mean they don't believe in management or enjoy hunting them. Not everyone has to hate wolves or bears to believe they need managed

And just to be clear I'm against the world reintroduction

I don't know...the past couple of years the Meateater show morphs into the "Turkeyeater" show this time of year. There are plenty of wolf tags and bear tags to be had in the west during the spring. Yet we get endless drivel about Texas ranch turkey hunts.

They can hunt whatever they want but I wouldn't say they outright enjoy bear hunting at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if Netflix or the new west coast sugar daddy said no more bear, lion, dog hunts on film.

 

[sveltri]

I think the idea is completely ridiculous. I’m sure wolves are cool to see, but I can’t understand how introducing an apex predator, and invasive species, to an environment full of prey that really has no previous experience of trying to survive against can be a good idea. Those of you that don’t live in CO that think it’s a good idea can go look at wolves somewhere else. We’re good, we don’t need any more foolish input.

 

[Grundy53]

I don't know...the past couple of years the Meateater show morphs into the "Turkeyeater" show this time of year. There are plenty of wolf tags and bear tags to be had in the west during the spring. Yet we get endless drivel about Texas ranch turkey hunts.

They can hunt whatever they want but I wouldn't say they outright enjoy bear hunting at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if Netflix or the new west coast sugar daddy said no more bear, lion, dog hunts on film.

Rinella won't kill a wolf. He's said it before that he's had opportunities in the past with a tag in his pocket and decided not to shoot one.

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[S.Clancy]

Two things:

1. Winter range habitat is incredibly important to elk. I'm only familiar with MT, but those herds that are struggling have seen major impacts to winter range from development. No one talks about this, ever.

2. I'd be interested to see what everyone considers the facts on the wolf issue? Further, what does everyone consider a fact in general? To me, facts are verifiable, referenced data that is then analyzed to form a conclusion about a phenomenon. Facts ARE NOT hand picked data to fit a certain conclusion.

 

[HookUp]

Who is going to pay for the wolf consultant? The state of WA has paid 1.6 million so far. Wolves don't come cheap with all the havoc they bring.

https://www.capitalpress.com/state/...cle_d2742d60-8209-5248-84a4-83d1f799b943.html

 

[buffsmoker]

I think the idea is completely ridiculous. I’m sure wolves are cool to see, but I can’t understand how introducing an apex predator, and invasive species, to an environment full of prey that really has no previous experience of trying to survive against can be a good idea. Those of you that don’t live in CO that think it’s a good idea can go look at wolves somewhere else. We’re good, we don’t need any more foolish input.

Can you expand on what you mean by "invasive species"? It's my understanding that gray wolves are native to Colorado, but were extirpated in the first half of the 20th century. Thanks.

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