Meateater wolf podcast vs Kifaru Wolf Podcast

[elkstabber]

Colorado's hands are tied without a federally approved management plan. Bitching about wolves eating Elk and Moose does nothing to that end; we all know what they do. People assume a passed ballot measure trumps the USFWS wolf plan. The Deputy Director told me their lawyers don't know what, if any, impact the measure will have on their actions at this point. A passed measure may actually do nothing to compel the Service to bring in Wolves.

Wapitibob made a good point. The feds still have control. A ballot measure (or whatever political maneuver) won't make a difference in the near future. But, my guess is that when the wolf population is established in Colorado and the feds turn over control to the state of Colorado there will not be a change. Simply put, Colorado's politics will never allow wolves to be hunted.

Who will pay for the control of problem wolves in Colorado's future? The CPW flatly stated that they don't want wolves.

 

[Muleyslayer14]

What do you find amazing regarding wolves?

The well documented fact that for centuries they like to just kill stuff for enjoyment and not consume it?

Wolves are great killers as we all know. Their behavior in pack communities and social structure are unlike any other animals. I find wolves to be fascinating creatures. I suppose those are a few reasons I find wolves amazing.

That doesn’t mean for a second that I think they should be released into Colorado, matter of fact I would like to see a decrease in numbers throughout the west because they are so detrimental on ungulates.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Concerning the invasive species topic, I believe most people get hung up on it due to the extent the feds went to in order to get wolves established into the Yellowstone eco system. In other words, it was wolves or else. I too believe it doesn’t matter because wolves do what wolves do.

What does matter is getting ready for this. The state needs to be proactive in developing a management plan. The residents and non residents affected by this need to play the same game the anti’s do. Rent bill boards showing wolves ripping fetus’s out of female prey. Show kids in New Mexico standing in enclosed school bus sheds built to protect them from wolves federally protected that have no fear of humans. There always seems to be plenty with stats on the monies hunters generate for CO. So print up brochures and make them available with the economic loss about to take place. People from afar can’t do this. But, we can send money to those who live there and can.


This is it fellas. The largest elk herd in America that had no restrictions on hunting. It’s what grew the instant elk hunter. It’s what has driven this sport. If it falls to the anti’s assault, one of the last nails in hunting coffin just got set, ready to be driven home. We have got to get organized or we are going to loose this. People are people. Uneducated on most things they opinion on but, very susceptible to visual stimulus.

 

[MtGomer]

The lady on Meateater is educated and intelligent but she consistently lied or atleast mislead through the podcast.
Every reference to how great the elk hunting is and what the harvest numbers of elk are is misleading and she knows it.
Take a map of Montana. Plot the wolf pack dispersion. Then plot the areas where elk numbers are too high.

For fun, plot the areas with below objective cow calf recruitment and single digit bull:cow ratios.
Which ones overlap wolves?

I’m not blaming wolves entirely. 10 weeks of OTC hunting and zero active management, along with fire suppression and almost no logging plays its part but fact is; the great elk hunting she speaks of takes place away from wolves.

 

[dreamingbig]

And not to mention elk are finding private land more appealing for year round occupancy given that man shoots at predators.


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[BradArnett]

This issue is a circus here in michigan. IIRC the population numbers wete met in 2004 to start managing them here. We had one season in 2013 and 20-some wolves were shot. Its been court battles ever since, with what seems like emotion winning over science.

 

[2ski]

I would agree that multiple issues are leading to decreased animal numbers in Idaho. From hunting pressure, urban sprawl and very suspect game management. But I think pre-wolf we had more room for error in regards to winter kill, predation, hunting pressure, miss management, wildfires, prescribed burns, and politics. Now we have zero room for error in many areas and the wolf is the reason IMO. Maybe if we would have let them get here on there own it would not have been so drastic on the ungulates or the wildlife management agencies.

I would love to hear just one wildlife biologist say we really ****** up!

Just a general comment. People say sh!t like "I would love to hear someone say we really ****** up", but in reality, they're going to hammer them harder when they say they messed up. It just is what it is. People think they will respond differently, but they really don't.

 

[2ski]

Aron made another point also: tourists mostly go to Estes Park to see all of the abundant wildlife. With a wolf introduction there will be less wildlife to watch, causing economic impacts to the area around Estes Park.

If you don't think wolves aren't a draw as wildlife to people, you're not seeing the big picture. People go to the Lamar in YNP to see wolves. Ted Turner is starting to back away from hunting to have eco tours where people are wanting to see predators. Alot of people would rather see a wolf pack doing wolf things than a 300 head elk herd standing around.

 

[joeljenewein]

Is your Google broke? Try finding an unbiased opinion on wolves.

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That's the problem. You can't find an unbiased opinion.

 

[2ski]

I'd really like to know the truth on whether wolves kill for fun. I don't think they do. It's anti-wolf groups that promote that idea. Are they coming back later for a meal?

It really, really pisses me off that people have the mentality that if you disagree with something I say then you must be against me. Civil discourse. A person questions your info and they must be pro-wolf? That ridiculous.

 

[Muley Buck]

This whole liberal ecosystem balance BS really pisses me off, humans are part of the ecosystem, they treat it as if us and nature are separate...

Human arrogance is how you arrive at those type of conclusions.

 

[sneaky]

I'd really like to know the truth on whether wolves kill for fun. I don't think they do. It's anti-wolf groups that promote that idea. Are they coming back later for a meal?

It really, really pisses me off that people have the mentality that if you disagree with something I say then you must be against me. Civil discourse. A person questions your info and they must be pro-wolf? That ridiculous.

I think there have been several well documented cases of wolves killing without returning for a meal. Especially concerning livestock. Seems they may be training their young how to do it. Who knows? It's not sm anti wolf thing, it's just what happens.

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[MallardSX2]

People will just shoot them and leave them lay.

2nd 3rd rifle seasons in Colorado, I would assume that it would be like a wolf shooting gallery.

People in Idaho and Montana have been doing it for years.

I am willing to bet that 9 out of 10 hunters probably wouldn't turn in another hunter who shot a wolf illegally.

 

[joeljenewein]

I think there have been several well documented cases of wolves killing without returning for a meal. Especially concerning livestock. Seems they may be training their young how to do it. Who knows? It's not sm anti wolf thing, it's just what happens.

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It isn't an anti wolf thing - however, if you question it, whether you question it trying to educate yourself or because you're genuinely curious, you get lumped into the anti hunting category. I think that's what 2ski was trying to get at.

 

[MuleyFever]

The well documented fact that for centuries they like to just kill stuff for enjoyment and not consume it?

So like people then but without all the garbage left everywhere.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I am trying to get the Game Warden and BIo that covered the Lolo area in Idaho on a podcast. Between the two they covered the area form 95 to 2016. Don't know if it will happen because most don't want to be out in public on this topic, but I'm trying.

The GW had checked in a lot of wolves. I asked about the average weight. He said females averaged 75 pounds, males 100 pounds. The biggest one he personally checked in was 128 pounds. So no super wolves in Idaho.

 

[Jimbob]

If you don't think wolves aren't a draw as wildlife to people, you're not seeing the big picture. People go to the Lamar in YNP to see wolves. Ted Turner is starting to back away from hunting to have eco tours where people are wanting to see predators. Alot of people would rather see a wolf pack doing wolf things than a 300 head elk herd standing around.

Bang on, people love predators. When I was in Yellowstone we saw elk, mule deer and Bison. The bison were the coolest thing I had ever seen but many people treated them like pests, just upset they they were in the way. Wolves on the other hand were insanely poplar. A hundred cars lined up on the highway just hoping for a glimpse at wolves 200 yds away. Tripods with spotting scopes and telephoto lenses lined the shoulder. By far this was the most popular animal in the park. People were willing to wait hours just to see them in the distance.

Here in BC bear watching tours are huge, big money coming in for this as well.

I love predators and think they should be part of every ecosystem, it is natural. However, we have augmented the natural landscape so much that we must be part of the management. We have set-up a habitat that tips the scales in favour of predators and if we do not balance this out by removing predators then we are in big trouble.

 

[elkstabber]

If you don't think wolves aren't a draw as wildlife to people, you're not seeing the big picture. People go to the Lamar in YNP to see wolves. Ted Turner is starting to back away from hunting to have eco tours where people are wanting to see predators. Alot of people would rather see a wolf pack doing wolf things than a 300 head elk herd standing around.

I'm with Aron on this one. I'll try to explain it better. I'm sure that people would go to Estes Park to see wolves, that is if wolves were there to be seen. Do you think that people would go in big numbers if they didn't see wolves? Rocky Mountain NP had more visitors last year than Yellowstone NP. Rocky Mountain NP is 1/10 the size of Yellowstone NP. Obviously people are going to Rocky Mountain NP to see wildlife that isn't wolves.

While wolves can realistically (mostly) live their whole lives in Yellowstone NP that can't happen at Rocky Mountain NP because it's just too small. And it's more roaded than Yellowstone, giving the wolves less of a reason to stay. I'm sure that visitor numbers will spike when wolves are to be seen, but there is no doubt that the visitors will drop off when the elk/deer/moose/sheep/etc aren't there to be seen after a year or two. The visitors will be just like the elk/deer/moose/sheep/etc population; once they are gone they're not coming back.

Interesting what you said about Ted Turner running eco tours. Because that directly conflicts with the fact that African eco tours are dying off and have been for the last decade. Of course, Ted Turner doesn't need to make money on eco tours either. Pretty much anybody else running an eco tour needs to be profitable.

Most places where wolves are present they are simply not viewable. Yellowstone NP might be the only exception. It will be difficult to have eco tours or eco tourism of any kind when the animals aren't viewable.

 

[elkstabber]

In case there are people who don't want to believe that wolves kill for sport. Here is documentation of sport killing by wolves. As reported by CNN.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/25/us/wyoming-wolf-pack-elk-slaughter/index.html

 

[Mtnboy]

I lasted 10 minutes on the Eastmans podcast.

When you don't even know how Colorado got to this point, saying "some Congressman or Senator put it on the ballot", I'm done. 5 seconds on Google will get you the answer.

Would you expect anything less from Kifarucast?