Masculinity and Caliber Choice

[atmat]

My primary hunting rifle is a pre 64 .375 h&h, not because of masculinity, but because it was my grandmothers primary hunting rifle all her life, it feels special to pack and shoot.

That’s a fantastic reason to shoot it.

 

[droptine818]

What you’re missing is that Form has seen hundreds of times that center fire .22, 6mm, and 6.5mm cartridges with the correct bullet leave just as big if not bigger would channel than some 30 cal magnums.

Fair I’ll have to read into that. But how do they behave then they interact with a shoulder blade at distance? Can they deliver enough energy to create the trauma needed to anchor an animal in the event that a shot isn’t in the soft body cavity? Not asking to be sarcastic I’m genuinely curious

 

[Big_wals]

I do think that a bigger cartridge eliminates a little bit of margin of error for shot placement. I’m a pretty good shot but I’m not making it through sniper school- that bit of error in the event of a poor shot might be lessened if you have a bigger cartridge with more energy being delivered on target. Shot placement is everything though no matter how far you are so the argument that bigger is better is kinda small minded, but there is some thing to be said for magnum calibers.

All else being equal, a bigger bullet that is the same design as a smaller bullet will do more damage, and give you a bigger margin for error. But I don’t believe its nearly as much as guys seem to think. If an 88 grain bullet produces a four inch diameter wound, and a 190 bullet makes an eight inch wound( I’m pulling these number out of my head, feel free to correct me), that is only a two inch margin of error in any direction. When you factor in how much easier a smaller cartridge is to shoot accurately in field conditions, that margin of error quickly disappears.

 

[Schmo]

All else being equal, a bigger bullet that is the same design as a smaller bullet will do more damage, and give you a bigger margin for error. But I don’t believe its nearly as much as guys seem to think. If an 88 grain bullet produces a four inch diameter wound, and a 190 bullet makes an eight inch wound( I’m pulling these number out of my head, feel free to correct me)

But that is exactly Form’s point. The larger bullet doesn’t make twice the wound channel, because the larger bullet isn’t as dramatic as the smaller one. Meaning that they aren’t constructed to the exact same proportions where a larger bullet just makes a lot bigger wound channel. The reason being, if that were so, the large bullets would cause far too much devastation.

Fair I’ll have to read into that. But how do they behave then they interact with a shoulder blade at distance? Can they deliver enough energy to create the trauma needed to anchor an animal in the event that a shot isn’t in the soft body cavity? Not asking to be sarcastic I’m genuinely curious

I completely understand that you genuinely want information, and I’m not criticizing you. Form covers this in-depth on the Hunt Backcountry podcast where he was interviewed. Listen to episodes 469, 470, & 479. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hunt-backcountry-podcast/id1020880772?i=1000659518245

The thing I appreciate about Form is that he is very fair. He backs up statements with facts that you can go prove yourself. He doesn’t just spout off.

 

[Big_wals]

But that is exactly Form’s point. The larger bullet doesn’t make twice the wound channel, because the larger bullet isn’t as dramatic as the smaller one. Meaning that they aren’t constructed to the exact same proportions where a larger bullet just makes a lot bigger wound channel. The reason being, if that were so, the large bullets would cause far too much devastation.

That’s why I said I wasn’t sure on the numbers. My point was, even IF a biger bullet created twice as wide of a wound channel, it’s still not as much margin as people seem to think. And as you said, a bullet that did so would be too destructive for hunting critters that you plan on eating.

 

[Schmo]

To distill everything down: the reason a lot of guys are on the smaller caliber train is that the smaller calibers, paired with a correct bullet (ELD-X, ELD-M, TMK), are giving wound channels that are the same size or bigger than 7mm magnums and 30 cal magnums. The smaller calibers are more shootable, and cheaper to shoot. We don’t run off of “knock-down power” or energy. Velocity is what makes bullets work. Someone else mentioned it on the forum, if “knock-down power” were real, body armor wouldn’t work, and you would get knocked flat on the ground by a pistol round. A 6 creed with a 108 ELD-M will keep 1800 fps to around 800 yards if muzzle velocity is 3000. A 6.5 PRC will run a 143 ELD-X to 1000 yards with 1800 fps. Both of those will cause as good of a wound channel as a 300WM.

 

[droptine818]

But that is exactly Form’s point. The larger bullet doesn’t make twice the wound channel, because the larger bullet isn’t as dramatic as the smaller one. Meaning that they aren’t constructed to the exact same proportions where a larger bullet just makes a lot bigger wound channel. The reason being, if that were so, the large bullets would cause far too much devastation.

I completely understand that you genuinely want information, and I’m not criticizing you. Form covers this in-depth on the Hunt Backcountry podcast where he was interviewed. Listen to episodes 469, 470, & 479. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hunt-backcountry-podcast/id1020880772?i=1000659518245

The thing I appreciate about Form is that he is very fair. He backs up statements with facts that you can go prove yourself. He doesn’t just spout off.

I’ll definitely take a look thank you

 

[MCS]

To distill everything down: the reason a lot of guys are on the smaller caliber train is that the smaller calibers, paired with a correct bullet (ELD-X, ELD-M, TMK), are giving wound channels that are the same size or bigger than 7mm magnums and 30 cal magnums. The smaller calibers are more shootable, and cheaper to shoot. We don’t run off of “knock-down power” or energy. Velocity is what makes bullets work. Someone else mentioned it on the forum, if “knock-down power” were real, body armor wouldn’t work, and you would get knocked flat on the ground by a pistol round. A 6 creed with a 108 ELD-M will keep 1800 fps to around 800 yards if muzzle velocity is 3000. A 6.5 PRC will run a 143 ELD-X to 1000 yards with 1800 fps. Both of those will cause as good of a wound channel as a 300WM.

I've shot multiple animals with the 140 eldm 143 eldx and 147 eldm. I've also shot multiple animals with the 30 cal 208 eldm 215 berger and 225 eldm. The larger 30 cal does way more damage. Also I have found that I have a higher percentage of animals that die instantly when shot with larger caliber match bullets. Smaller calibers are easier to shoot and for a lot of people it's a better choice. But it's not true to say that a 108 will have just as big of a wound channel as a 225. If you ran a barnes in a big 30 cal vs a 108 in a 6mm you statement would probably be true.

 

[Hurley88]

I've shot multiple animals with the 140 eldm 143 eldx and 147 eldm. I've also shot multiple animals with the 30 cal 208 eldm 215 berger and 225 eldm. The larger 30 cal does way more damage. Also I have found that I have a higher percentage of animals that die instantly when shot with larger caliber match bullets. Smaller calibers are easier to shoot and for a lot of people it's a better choice. But it's not true to say that a 108 will have just as big of a wound channel as a 225. If you ran a barnes in a big 30 cal vs a 108 in a 6mm you statement would probably be true.

This is true. But the overall point is, the specific bullet construction makes the difference. Not the caliber or kinetic energy.

What’s being said is that using a small caliber ELDM or ELD-X or TMK at above 1800fps outperforms a 30cal magnum using harder/less expanding bullets, in terms of wound channel diameter. The benefit is that you can then use a lower-recoiling round and have a much higher hit rate, plus reduced time to incapacitation of the animal. Both are good things.

A larger ELDM will create a larger wound channel, in aggregate. But there will be times your 225 ELDM creates a smaller wound than the 147 ELDM too; though not often.

 

[Turkeytider]

Just curious since I`ve never hunted big animals ( Moose, bear, elk, large African game, etc. ). Do outfitters/ guide services, whether both here or abroad, specify minimum calibers depending upon animals being hunted?

 

[JGRaider]

Just curious since I`ve never hunted big animals ( Moose, bear, elk, large African game, etc. ). Do outfitters/ guide services, whether both here or abroad, specify minimum calibers depending upon animals being hunted?

Often times the outfitter, or even the country (Namibia, SA), etc will dictate cartridge minimums for certain big game animals.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Just curious since I`ve never hunted big animals ( Moose, bear, elk, large African game, etc. ). Do outfitters/ guide services, whether both here or abroad, specify minimum calibers depending upon animals being hunted?

Outfitter I hunted with in the Bob published a 160 grain bullet requirement. However, he never checked guys guns or ammo.

 

[Turkeytider]

Often times the outfitter, or even the country (Namibia, SA), etc will dictate cartridge minimums for certain big game animals.

I guess that would take our do-it-all .223 off the table then? That`s assuming, of course, that the stated minimum is something larger than .223.

 

[Hurley88]

Just curious since I`ve never hunted big animals ( Moose, bear, elk, large African game, etc. ). Do outfitters/ guide services, whether both here or abroad, specify minimum calibers depending upon animals being hunted?

Yes and no. Obviously you need to check the legal minimums wherever you’re hunting, but then also have that convo with the outfitter. I’ve had good luck with that, clearing it all up beforehand. Some outfitters will require minimums, but a lot of them are more pliable than you’d think also.

Moose hunt in September 2025 will be with the 6 ARC.

 

[oldskool67]

It's folks on the fringes that feel like they need to justify themselves. The majority are silent because they use boring cartridges.

Back to back World War Champion 30-06 is not boring sir……

 

[oldskool67]

Shoot whatever you like….just not 6.5 CM

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

 

[HuntHarder]

As a newish hunter, I’ve been talking to many folks regarding calibers, rifles, etc. It seems there is a pretty substantial amount of hunters who make fun of people who use “wimpy” calibers and try to justify using a 338 Win Mag on southern white tails.

Shouldn’t a person use the strongest caliber they can shoot the best? A .243 in the right spot is miles better than a 300WM in the dirt ya know?

I’ve even been told the .270, .308, and even the .30-06 isn’t good enough and a magnum is needed . Doesn’t make sense.

Thoughts on why some people seem to think their masculinity coincides with their caliber choice?

The good news is, Rokslide is opposite! Guys that drive lifted trucks and are chalked full of T, shoot .223's at large game.