Masculinity and Caliber Choice

[BLJ]

It anchors the animal and may or may not need a finishing shot depending on the angle and what else is damaged - if it clips the spine and end up buried in the gut I would expect that to kill the animal outright. A different angle and it might affect enough things to put the lights out.

Now I fully understand your intentions with this type of shot.

 

[timberland156]

So how does going .020"-.044" larger in diameter get me a significantly different wound channel? What about impact velocity? What about changes in those bullets themselves? What if a 147gr 6.5 bullet actually performs better on game than a 162gr 7mm or a 180gr 30 cal?

Have you taken a white tail beyond 300yds? Have you done it with a 6.5 creed or another 6.5 variant? Have you done it numerous times?

Heavier caliber bullets maintain their energy at longer distances. So if you’re shooting at long-distance and want to maintain your velocity you just use a heavier bullet With high ballistic coefficient if possible. If you hit the heart or a double lung shot the size of the wound channel is almost negligible between a 26 cal or a 30 CAL As long as the velocity is sufficient to expand the bullet. In general you should pick the projectile that has the best terminal velocity at the distance that you’re shooting.

 

[06 SB]

How far are those longer shots? That 7-08 will reach out further than I generally hear anyone talk about shooting whitetails.


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In some crop fields, you can see a deer from 3/4 of a mile or more. Shooting that far is whole other story and not my style. The 28 Nosler is popular in those areas. I like to get ‘em close. Here is my best one that was only 30yds out with a 7mm-08. Field dressed at 207 pounds.

 

[yeti12]

Heavier caliber bullets maintain their energy at longer distances. So if you’re shooting at long-distance and want to maintain your velocity you just use a heavier bullet With high ballistic coefficient if possible. If you hit the heart or a double lung shot the size of the wound channel is almost negligible between a 26 cal or a 30 CAL As long as the velocity is sufficient to expand the bullet. In general you should pick the projectile that has the best terminal velocity at the distance that you’re shooting.

Energy is almost irrelevant. But you made my point. Why shoot a gun that has more recoil and more muzzle blast to accomplish the same thing? A 6.5 prc (147@2910) and a 300 prc (225@2810) have essentially the same drop, drift, and impact velocity at 800yds.

Yet "if you are shooting past 300yds you might need a 7mm or a 30 cal" . Nonsense.

300prc is shooting some of the heaviest 30 cal bullets you can get in a factory load and off the shelf rifle yet it doesn't outperform something with significantly less recoil also shooting factory ammo....

You can keep going with 6mm and 22 cal comparisons as well

 

[timberland156]

Energy is almost irrelevant. But you made my point. Why shoot a gun that has more recoil and more muzzle blast to accomplish the same thing? A 6.5 prc and a 300 prc have essentially the same drop, drift, and impact velocity at 800yds.

Yet "if you are shooting past 300yds you might need a 7mm or a 30 cal" . Nonsense.

300prc is shooting some of the heaviest 30 cal bullets you can get in a factory load and off the shelf rifle yet it doesn't outperform something with significantly less recoil also shooting factory ammo....

You can keep going with 6mm and 22 cal comparisons as well

Bullet expansion is a function of energy, which is a function of velocity. So energy is completely relevant. Past 300 yards impact velocity Energy and bullet expansion are typically higher with larger caliber high ballistic coefficient cartridges. These are generalizations. It really depends on what you’re after. Are you trying to get full expansion of your projectile at the distance you’re shooting? I don’t think it does the conversation any Justice to continue speaking in generalizations. To carry the conversation in a useful direction; direct comparisons should be made to specific loads and projectiles. I usually find the speed at which the bullet fully deforms, consider the shooting distance and velocity loss, and pick the cartridge that allows the bullet to fully perform at the distance shot..

 

[wyosam]

Bullet expansion is a function of energy, which is a function of velocity. So energy is completely relevant. Past 300 yards impact velocity Energy and bullet expansion are typically higher with larger caliber high ballistic coefficient cartridges. These are generalizations. It really depends on what you’re after. Are you trying to get full expansion of your projectile at the distance you’re shooting? I don’t think it does the conversation any Justice to continue speaking in generalizations. To carry the conversation in a useful direction; direct comparisons should be made to specific loads and projectiles. I usually find the speed at which the bullet fully deforms, consider the shooting distance and velocity loss, and pick the cartridge that allows the bullet to fully perform at the distance shot..

Thou shalt not speak the “e” word on Rokslide. Folks get pretty worked up about it.


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[yeti12]

Bullet expansion is a function of energy, which is a function of velocity. So energy is completely relevant. Past 300 yards impact velocity Energy and bullet expansion are typically higher with larger caliber high ballistic coefficient cartridges. These are generalizations. It really depends on what you’re after. Are you trying to get full expansion of your projectile at the distance you’re shooting? I don’t think it does the conversation any Justice to continue speaking in generalizations. To carry the conversation in a useful direction; direct comparisons should be made to specific loads and projectiles. I usually find the speed at which the bullet fully deforms, consider the shooting distance and velocity loss, and pick the cartridge that allows the bullet to fully perform at the distance shot..

This whole thing stemmed from a guy saying a 6.5 would work on deer out to 300 but past there they should go bigger... nonsense

I'm suprised it's even a topic that's still being debated. I asked him for his personal experience and he hasn't responded yet. I'm expecting, like most people saying go bigger he either hasn't done it or did it once and made a bad shot. Cause they work just fine. And anyone that has done it isn't telling people they need something bigger.

 

[timberland156]

This whole thing stemmed from a guy saying a 6.5 would work on deer out to 300 but past there they should go bigger... nonsense

I'm suprised it's even a topic that's still being debated. I asked him for his personal experience and he hasn't responded yet. I'm expecting, like most people saying go bigger he either hasn't done it or did it once and made a bad shot. Cause they work just fine. And anyone that has done it isn't telling people they need something bigger.

Another reason for going bigger would be if your objective is to have a flatter trajectory and not have to dial or hold over on longer range shots. Without full understanding of your boundary conditions it’s not really possible to cater a response, which is probobly leading to frustration.

 

[wyosam]

Another reason for going bigger would be if your objective is to have a flatter trajectory and not have to dial or hold over on longer range shots. Without full understanding of your boundary conditions it’s not really possible to cater a response, which is probobly leading to frustration.

But if that is the goal, the best way to get there is with a bigger cartridge and a smaller (diameter) bullet. Long, sleek, high bc, heavy for caliber bullets pushed stupid fast will get you the longest MPBR.

To stay on topic, I believe 4200fps is where masculinity is achieved.


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[JohnJohnson]

Another reason for going bigger would be if your objective is to have a flatter trajectory and not have to dial or hold over on longer range shots.

You can do that with a fast 6mm though. Kind of a "think smarter not harder" sort of thing. I just ran the numbers to 800 yards with a 115 DTAC vs a 225 ELD-M (just used factory ammo of 6mm Creedmoor / 300 Win Mag velocities from Copper Creek). The 115 DTAC has 0.7 less elevation needed at the cost of 0.2 more wind hold needed for a 10 MPH crosswind.

 

[yeti12]

Another reason for going bigger would be if your objective is to have a flatter trajectory and not have to dial or hold over on longer range shots. Without full understanding of your boundary conditions it’s not really possible to cater a response, which is probobly leading to frustration.

Did the guy at the local gun store tell you big boolet drop less and you just ran with it or what?

 

[timberland156]

This whole thing stemmed from a guy saying a 6.5 would work on deer out to 300 but past there they should go bigger... nonsense

I'm suprised it's even a topic that's still being debated. I asked him for his personal experience and he hasn't responded yet. I'm expecting, like most people saying go bigger he either hasn't done it or did it once and made a bad shot. Cause they work just fine. And anyone that has done it isn't telling people they need something bigger.

Another reason for going bigger would be if your objective is to have a flatter trajectory and not have to dial or hold over on longer range shots. Without full understanding of your boundary conditions it’s not really possible to cater a response, which is probobly leading to frustration

You can do that with a fast 6mm though. Kind of a "think smarter not harder" sort of thing. I just ran the numbers to 800 yards with a 115 DTAC vs a 225 ELD-M (just used factory ammo of 6mm Creedmoor / 300 Win Mag velocities from Copper Creek). The 115 DTAC has 0.7 less elevation needed at the cost of 0.2 more wind hold needed for a 10 MPH crosswind.

the main difference between the two at 800yd is the velocity. I don’t have it in front of me but I would guess that the speed of the 6mm is less than 1700 fps and not optimal for full expansion.

 

[JohnJohnson]

the main difference between the two at 800yd is the velocity. I don’t have it in front of me but I would guess that the speed of the 6mm is less than 1700 fps and not optimal for full expansion.

In this comparison they have essentially identical velocity at 800 yards. The 115 DTAC has 1884 and the 225 ELD-M has 1882. Again, I'm just using the velocity numbers on Copper Creek's factory ammo with those bullets so handloads could vary a bit but that goes for both of them.

 

[yeti12]

In this comparison they have essentially identical velocity at 800 yards. The 115 DTAC has 1884 and the 225 ELD-M has 1882. Again, I'm just using the velocity numbers on Copper Creek's factory ammo with those bullets so handloads could vary a bit but that goes for both of them.

Kinda like my comparison of 2 factory loads between the 6.5 prc and 300 prc.

1979fps vs 1975fps at 800yds

 

[IDVortex]

Some times you got to pull up your skinny jeans, slick your manbun back and grab one of those big, mean, and loud guns to get the job done. All while not spilling your vegan latte.

Only quoting this so I know where to pickup on my.read tomorrow. Got about 7 hours sitting on a roller waiting to roll a road, so need something to read.

Carry on gents. And, I think it needs to be said again.

Only cartridge that's deadly enough to kill a wild elk that has a level 4+ armor on is a M1 ABRAM, If you don't shoot elk with this, then you shouldn't be hunting due to your non humane rounds.

 

[Mike D Texas]

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[mt100gr.]

Only quoting this so I know where to pickup on my.read tomorrow. Got about 7 hours sitting on a roller waiting to roll a road, so need something to read.

Carry on gents. And, I think it needs to be said again.

Only cartridge that's deadly enough to kill a wild elk that has a level 4+ armor on is a M1 ABRAM, If you don't shoot elk with this, then you shouldn't be hunting due to your non humane rounds.

Is the M1 ABRAM enough for ass shots?

 

[Rich M]

Now I fully understand your intentions with this type of shot.

When i started hunting in the 70's, we were in an area with maybe 20% success and you might see 1 animal during a 9-day season. If it was a legal animal, you took whatever shot you could get and angle the bullet into an anchor or kill shot. Preferred shot was high shoulder, the less it moved the better cause it would usually run downhill into the thickest stuff around.

Rifle hunting - Say critter is 100 yds away, looking at you/me, antsy getting ready to bolt - can see one eye, half a head and a big antler, couple trees, the rear half of guts + butt end. Is it a hunting story about the big one that got away or are you quartering that animal? My guess is that most guys would be telling a story around campfire that night. A few would be packing out meat.

 

[BLJ]

When i started hunting in the 70's, we were in an area with maybe 20% success and you might see 1 animal during a 9-day season. If it was a legal animal, you took whatever shot you could get and angle the bullet into an anchor or kill shot. Preferred shot was high shoulder, the less it moved the better cause it would usually run downhill into the thickest stuff around.

Rifle hunting - Say critter is 100 yds away, looking at you/me, antsy getting ready to bolt - can see one eye, half a head and a big antler, couple trees, the rear half of guts + butt end. Is it a hunting story about the big one that got away or are you quartering that animal? My guess is that most guys would be telling a story around campfire that night. A few would be packing out meat.

Story for me. I’m not forcing what’s not there. That’s for me. IMO.

 

[yeti12]

Is the M1 ABRAM enough for ass shots?

Only past 300yds