Masculinity and Caliber Choice

[JohnJohnson]

Anchoring an animal with a rear spine shot isn’t covered in the 223 post? Hmm…

I don't have a .223 but it's my personal opinion that Texas heart shots are unethical with any cartridge. However, I'm aware my ethics mean very little to anyone but me.

 

[TaperPin]

Even Form has used this. You’re not shooting them in the butt or the gut.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Even Form has used this. You’re not shooting them in the butt or the gut.

For clarification, is this on an animal you've already put a bullet into at a more traditional angle? Or is this the first shot?

 

[TaperPin]

For clarification, is this on an animal you've already put a bullet into at a more traditional angle? Or is this the first shot?

You should wait until it has a good long online post with lots of photos. Only then will it be considered effective. Lol

Knowing how to do it effectively and when it’s needed has been passed down for generations since cast bullets first started flying.

 

[ElPollo]

You should wait until it has a good long online post with lots of photos. Only then will it be considered effective. Lol

Troll or catfish? My money is on the latter.

 

[fwafwow]

Troll or catfish? My money is on the latter.

Are the mutually exclusive?

 

[TaperPin]

Troll or catfish? My money is on the latter.

So everybody that doesn’t share your life experiences is a troll or catfish? That sounds like solid analytical skills. Lol

 

[Ozarkansas]

Y’all are missing out on the most important consideration for caliber choice: does it have swag?

There’s no denying anymore that the .223 is effective, the thread we’ve all read has proven that. But let’s be honest, the .223 is a pretty lame cartridge- it’s cheap, common, and doesn’t even have any cool history. It’s like the Honda civic of rifle cartridges. Swag with this cartridge is minimal, so I’d only use it for varmints.

I have a .243, but that caliber isn’t much better. Sure it has nostalgia as my first deer rifle, but everyone knows what a .243 is, and why should I hunt with something that doesn’t require a 20 minute explanation whenever I’m asked “what are you hunting with?”. For this reason, the .243 has sufficient swag for deer, but it’s only marginally swaggy for larger game.

Now let’s look at the cartridge I exclusively hunt with: a 6.5x55. I can’t follow up with it as fast as a .223, but follow-ups are almost unheard of in the East anyway. I can’t spot my impacts, but when my longest shot is 150 yards that’s irrelevant too.
As far as pros, this cartridge has killed nazis, killed communists, requires you to handload, and is esoteric enough to to be mislabeled as a 6.5 CM at least once per range session, allowing you to smugly correct someone.

For that reason the 6.5x55 has an ideal level of swag for a North American cartridge, and could even be considered for use in Africa.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Anchoring an animal with a rear spine shot isn’t covered in the 223 post? Hmm…

So you're saying that your 300 win mag is going to "anchor" both of those elk with a spine shot every time? Very interesting assumption.

 

[TaperPin]

So you're saying that your 300 win mag is going to "anchor" both of those elk with a spine shot every time? Very interesting assumption.

I’m saying when you’re wiping out the lower spine of an animal, a big bullet with a lot of velocity and penetration has a significant advantage and is less likely to be deflected. A fragmented 77 gr doesn’t have the physics behind it.

It seems like a basic hunting skill to know how to take an animal out, even if it is 100 yards away standing still pointing the wrong direction - maybe not hunting 101, but after animal anatomy 101, intermediate marksmanship 201, and watching it a few times, it seems like a normal thing any above average well rounded hunter should know.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

Troll or catfish? My money is on the latter.

Either way, we’ve been leaning over the side this bridge way too long.

 

[EastHumboldt]

Let’s talk about quiche some more. It’s more interesting cuz it has bacon.

 

[BLJ]

For clarification, is this on an animal you've already put a bullet into at a more traditional angle? Or is this the first shot?

I’m curious about your answer to this question as well. @TaperPin

 

[TaperPin]

I’m curious about your answer to this question as well. @TaperPin

I have no problem using it as a first shot if the conditions are within my limitations - no hesitation at all if it’s likely a better angle won’t present itself. If someone doesn’t know anatomy, can’t visualize anatomy under a layer of skin, can’t shoot accurately, and basically is trying to make it up on the spot, they shouldn’t try to do it and should stick to broadside shots out in a grassy meadow.

 

[Robobiss]

I’m saying when you’re wiping out the lower spine of an animal, a big bullet with a lot of velocity and penetration has a significant advantage and is less likely to be deflected. A fragmented 77 gr doesn’t have the physics behind it.

It seems like a basic hunting skill to know how to take an animal out, even if it is 100 yards away standing still pointing the wrong direction - maybe not hunting 101, but after animal anatomy 101, intermediate marksmanship 201, and watching it a few times, it seems like a normal thing any above average well rounded hunter should know.

I usually stay out of the weeds and keep to myself with these posts, but I’ll throw in my two cents regardless.

Hunting *for me* is strictly about meat. It doesn’t matter if the animal has a big rack, a small rack, no rack, or is confused about its gender. I could not, and will not, purposely take a shot that is going to destroy and make inedible unnecessary amounts of meat. The best meat (backstraps and hams) on top of it.

If I had not done my part on the initial shot and had already wounded an animal and am now in “this fuckin sucks” goat rodeo mode. Sure. I’ll shoot at whatever I have to and poke as many holes as necessary to do my due diligence to the critter and put them out of their misery.

What you would never ever catch me doing, -world class trophy or not-, -effective or not- is taking a janky shot like you are describing to “anchor” an animal. If in doing so I am at any risk of smoking a ham or two and ruining 2’ of backstrap. There are other days, there are other bulls out there. If I am behind the gun, and I never get another shot with a better angle, these two bulls are safe.

I don’t even like to shoot things *in* the shoulder unless I absolutely have to. Not because they are “bulletproof”, but because every shoulder I smoke with a bullet is a noticeably smaller pile of meat for me to feed my grinder, and in turn less tacos and shepherds pie I can feed to my family, and more of an animal that I killed going to waste.

Take these shots as you please, but ethically, for me, they do not belong anywhere in my “bag of tricks” for the reasons stated above.

 

[TaperPin]

I usually stay out of the weeds and keep to myself with these posts, but I’ll throw in my two cents regardless.

Hunting *for me* is strictly about meat. It doesn’t matter if the animal has a big rack, a small rack, no rack, or is confused about its gender. I could not, and will not, purposely take a shot that is going to destroy and make inedible unnecessary amounts of meat. The best meat (backstraps and hams) on top of it.

If I had not done my part on the initial shot and had already wounded an animal and am now in “this fuckin sucks” goat rodeo mode. Sure. I’ll shoot at whatever I have to and poke as many holes as necessary to do my due diligence to the critter and put them out of their misery.

What you would never ever catch me doing, -world class trophy or not-, -effective or not- is taking a janky shot like you are describing to “anchor” an animal. If in doing so I am at any risk of smoking a ham or two and ruining 2’ of backstrap. There are other days, there are other bulls out there. If I am behind the gun, and I never get another shot with a better angle, these two bulls are safe.

I don’t even like to shoot things *in* the shoulder unless I absolutely have to. Not because they are “bulletproof”, but because every shoulder I smoke with a bullet is a noticeably smaller pile of meat for me to feed my grinder, and in turn less tacos and shepherds pie I can feed to my family, and more of an animal that I killed going to waste.

Take these shots as you please, but ethically, for me, they do not belong anywhere in my “bag of tricks” for the reasons stated above.

I teach all the kids in the family how to do this well and to understand their personal limitations when doing it. They may never use it as a first shot, but they will eventually be in the position to use it as a follow up shot and I’m a firm believer to know what you’re doing, think things through and practice before it’s needed. At least to me, it makes sense even for meat hunters to understand it if the first shot goes bad.

It’s no different from understanding a neck shot if the elks body is hidden behind trees. It’s not as easy as a chest shot, but if it’s close enough to be within a person’s capabilities, and the elk are likely to not present a better shot, I have no hesitation to take that shot as well.

 

[Robobiss]

I teach all the kids in the family how to do this well and to understand their personal limitations when doing it. They may never use it as a first shot, but they will eventually be in the position to use it as a follow up shot and I’m a firm believer to know what you’re doing, think things through and practice before it’s needed. At least to me, it makes sense even for meat hunters to understand it if the first shot goes bad.

It’s no different from understanding a neck shot if the elks body is hidden behind trees. It’s not as easy as a chest shot, but if it’s close enough to be within a person’s capabilities, and the elk are likely to not present a better shot, I have no hesitation to take that shot as well.

Fair enough in regards to the follow up shot. Once blood is drawn, all bets are off.

If I paunched either of these animals and they were hunched up walking away, I’d take it. I wouldn’t be happy about it, I wouldn’t write off the day as a “success” because I 1. Made a bad shot initially, 2. Wrecked a shitload of good meat.

But I would feel better about taking it vs not taking it. First shot? Never in a million years.

 

[mt100gr.]

Let’s talk about quiche some more. It’s more interesting cuz it has bacon.

Have you ever shot a quiche in the ass??

(Is "a quiche" correct?) ....I always call it "quee-chee" to annoy my daughters....

 

[BLJ]

I have no problem using it as a first shot if the conditions are within my limitations - no hesitation at all if it’s likely a better angle won’t present itself. If someone doesn’t know anatomy, can’t visualize anatomy under a layer of skin, can’t shoot accurately, and basically is trying to make it up on the spot, they shouldn’t try to do it and should stick to broadside shots out in a grassy meadow.

Thanks for answering the question.

I noticed you mention about teaching this particular shot (facing directly away). Do you have a source for targets? Maybe whitetail as well. Thanks.

 

[Thegman]

I teach all the kids in the family how to do this well and to understand their personal limitations when doing it. They may never use it as a first shot, but they will eventually be in the position to use it as a follow up shot and I’m a firm believer to know what you’re doing, think things through and practice before it’s needed. At least to me, it makes sense even for meat hunters to understand it if the first shot goes bad.

It’s no different from understanding a neck shot if the elks body is hidden behind trees. It’s not as easy as a chest shot, but if it’s close enough to be within a person’s capabilities, and the elk are likely to not present a better shot, I have no hesitation to take that shot as well.

I'm reluctant to wade into this quagmire, but I do find it interesting you didn't actually answer the question with a "yes" or "no". First paragraph -implies- a "no, I teach it as a backup". Second paragraph implies a "yes, like a neck shot, if that's all you've got"

With respect to meat recovery, it's nothing like a neck shot.

(My mistake, looks like you answered in the clear affirmative in an earlier post.)