Making sure I’m not wasting money - MT preference points

[dreamingbig]

While I agree with you the outfitter stuff is bad, I disagree that it isn't Capitalism. Capitalism is a great system, but it's not perfect. One of the negatives of living in a capitalistic society is that moneyed interests are going to work to exert control in the regulatory process.

The good news is we can, and have been, fighting it. Unfortunately Worsech is not an elected official, he was appointed by the governor, and takes his orders from him. It's extremely frustrating.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

It wasn’t done by the FWP. It was done in the cleanup bill on the last day of the legislative session. It was crooked politics not capitalism. The bills that the public were given a chance to comment on were shot down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Herdbulll]

When do you find out if you have forfeited your points by not applying? Do they update your preference point numbers at the same time as draw results?

 

[Erict]

When do you find out if you have forfeited your points by not applying? Do they update your preference point numbers at the same time as draw results?

That is among the questions I asked them in the email sent on April 1. I will post the reply here, but if they take a while responding we may all find out sooner by checking our ALS accounts.

 

[Trap]

It wasn’t done by the FWP. It was done in the cleanup bill on the last day of the legislative session. It was crooked politics not capitalism. The bills that the public were given a chance to comment on were shot down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Definition of capi

While I agree with you the outfitter stuff is bad, I disagree that it isn't Capitalism. Capitalism is a great system, but it's not perfect. One of the negatives of living in a capitalistic society is that moneyed interests are going to work to exert control in the regulatory process.

The good news is we can, and have been, fighting it. Unfortunately Worsech is not an elected official, he was appointed by the governor, and takes his orders from him. It's extremely frustrating.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

Definition of capitalism-system where trade and business are controlled by private owners for profit not by the state or government I would say the recent outfitter pp would then not be capitalism. It’s all good it sounds like we mostly agree

 

[bigsky2]

I haven't read through this entire thread so sorry if this was posted already. This is the language in the bill that was passed this past year which forces NR to apply every year if they want to keep their preference points:

The department shall delete an applicant's accumulated preference points if the applicant:
(i) obtains a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license; or
(ii) does not apply for a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license in consecutive years.
(b) If an applicant is unsuccessful in drawing a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license, the department shall allow the applicant to keep and apply preference points to subsequent drawings if done in consecutive years.

Link to the bill- https://legiscan.com/MT/text/HB637/2021

It's a pretty good scheme to get your money every year.

 

[bsnedeker]

Definition of capi

Definition of capitalism-system where trade and business are controlled by private owners for profit not by the state or government I would say the recent outfitter pp would then not be capitalism. It’s all good it sounds like we mostly agree

yeah, we do agree, but again, where in your definition does it say that the private businesses can't lobby the government to get the regulations that they want? It happens so often they have a specific term for it: Crony Capitalism.

The system isn't perfect is all I'm saying, but it's the best system we have come up with 10,000 years of human civilization.

 

[Riplip]

That is among the questions I asked them in the email sent on April 1. I will post the reply here, but if they take a while responding we may all find out sooner by checking our ALS accounts.

It will be interesting to see if they respond. Hope so.

 

[Erict]

As promised, I am posting the verbatim wording of messages sent to Montana FWP and the reply received from them regarding Preference Points, especially whether one must apply every year or every other year to avoid losing accumulated preference points. Their reply makes it 100% clear to me.

***** EMAIL TO MT FWP FROM ME *****:

From:
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 3:06 PM
To: '[email protected]' <[email protected]>
Subject: Questions regarding the PP deletion

Good day,

I am writing for clarification on the changes to NR Preference Points (PP) created by the passage of HB637, which states, in part “The department shall delete an applicant's accumulated preference points if the applicant…does not apply for a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license in consecutive years.”

Which interpretation is correct when using the scenario “I applied for a combo license w/PP in 2021, I did not apply at all in 2022, and I will apply for a combo license in 2023”?

1. “I can skip applying for a combo license every other year and not have my accumulated PP deleted”. The argument is I have not gone consecutive years without applying for a license, I only went a single year without applying for a license and will not lose my accumulated PP”.
2. “I CANNOT skip applying for a combo license – I must apply each year or have my accumulated PP deleted.” The argument is I have not applied for a combo license in consecutive years – 2021 and 2022, so I will lose my accumulated PP”.

True or False – 2021 apply for PP only, 2022 apply for PP only. I have not applied for a B-10 or B-11 in consecutive years and will lose my accumulated PP (the one from 2021), going in to 2023 with 1 PP (from 2022).

True or False - 2021 apply for combo license w/PP but not drawn, 2022 apply for PP only. I have not applied for a B-10 or B-11 in consecutive years and will lose my accumulated PP (the one from 2021), going in to 2023 with 1 PP (from 2022).

When will accumulated PP be deleted (April 2, before the July 1 PP only opening)?

Will deleted PP appear on the customer side of the AWS system?


***** REPLY FROM MT FWP (Lucas, Kasydi <[email protected]>) *****:

The #2 interpretation is correct. Both of the statements are TRUE. And no, the deleted PP will not show up on the hunter’s end, but we can see when they were reset on our end.

If you have any other questions, please let us know.

Thank you, have a nice day.

Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks
P.O. Box 200701
Helena, MT 59620-0701
Ph: (406) 444-2950

 

[Trap]

As promised, I am posting the verbatim wording of messages sent to Montana FWP and the reply received from them regarding Preference Points, especially whether one must apply every year or every other year to avoid losing accumulated preference points. Their reply makes it 100% clear to me.

***** EMAIL TO MT FWP FROM ME *****:

From:
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 3:06 PM
To: '[email protected]' <[email protected]>
Subject: Questions regarding the PP deletion

Good day,

I am writing for clarification on the changes to NR Preference Points (PP) created by the passage of HB637, which states, in part “The department shall delete an applicant's accumulated preference points if the applicant…does not apply for a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license in consecutive years.”

Which interpretation is correct when using the scenario “I applied for a combo license w/PP in 2021, I did not apply at all in 2022, and I will apply for a combo license in 2023”?

1. “I can skip applying for a combo license every other year and not have my accumulated PP deleted”. The argument is I have not gone consecutive years without applying for a license, I only went a single year without applying for a license and will not lose my accumulated PP”.
2. “I CANNOT skip applying for a combo license – I must apply each year or have my accumulated PP deleted.” The argument is I have not applied for a combo license in consecutive years – 2021 and 2022, so I will lose my accumulated PP”.

True or False – 2021 apply for PP only, 2022 apply for PP only. I have not applied for a B-10 or B-11 in consecutive years and will lose my accumulated PP (the one from 2021), going in to 2023 with 1 PP (from 2022).

True or False - 2021 apply for combo license w/PP but not drawn, 2022 apply for PP only. I have not applied for a B-10 or B-11 in consecutive years and will lose my accumulated PP (the one from 2021), going in to 2023 with 1 PP (from 2022).

When will accumulated PP be deleted (April 2, before the July 1 PP only opening)?

Will deleted PP appear on the customer side of the AWS system?


***** REPLY FROM MT FWP (Lucas, Kasydi <[email protected]>) *****:

The #2 interpretation is correct. Both of the statements are TRUE. And no, the deleted PP will not show up on the hunter’s end, but we can see when they were reset on our end.

If you have any other questions, please let us know.

Thank you, have a nice day.

Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks
P.O. Box 200701
Helena, MT 59620-0701
Ph: (406) 444-2950

Thanks for that update and clarification finally a firm answer!

 

[baz77]

Yup I bought a point last year didn't apply this year my account already updated to 0 preference points.