Long Range Hunting: Hold Over Reticle, Dial or Both?

[General RE LEE]

Let me preface this thread that almost all of my shots on game have been within MPBR of the cartridge I was using. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve dialed up a value to shoot at an animal.

With that said, I picked up a Zeiss with a Christmas tree style reticle and have been practicing with it. It also has a ballistic MOA turret for dialing. I have been a dialer but I’ve found it has its limitations in certain hunting scenarios. Trying to see the turret inside a box blind when there are 5 minutes left of legal light requires taking eye off the target and trying to can’t rifle towards the fading light to read the turret. That’s a problem IMO. It would be easier to know your hash mark values and hold over to take the shot.

Anyone here hold over? How about dialing exclusively? Or maybe both?

 

[General RE LEE]

Here’s the Zeiss ZBi #68 reticle I’ve really come to appreciate. It’s not obstructive and I can do a lot with it in tandem with the Zeiss app.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Both. Lots of variables as to why one or the other.

 

[Quicksilver]

I hike dialing is always most accurate, it sounds to me if you’re hunting from a blind then those shots aren’t very long (correct me if this is wrong) so holding over using your reticle would be a great choice for low light. Pre season test your poi with dialing and compared to holdover and compare the two. Let that be your ultimate choice. For what it’s worth I’ve used my reticle mainly for wind holds in prs matches out past 1000yds and it’s been fine.

 

[General RE LEE]

I hike dialing is always most accurate, it sounds to me if you’re hunting from a blind then those shots aren’t very long (correct me if this is wrong) so holding over using your reticle would be a great choice for low light. Pre season test your poi with dialing and compared to holdover and compare the two. Let that be your ultimate choice. For what it’s worth I’ve used my reticle mainly for wind holds in prs matches out past 1000yds and it’s been fine.

Shot possibilities from my primary spot can be out to 600 yards but honestly I’ve never flung one that far at a live animal. I belong to 2 ranges with steel out to 1K but 500 + yards is a long way for a spry whitetail deer that’s not standing still.

With that said, if I got time I would also prefer to dial but being able to do both depending on situation is an asset. I’ll get a lot of practice time in on this reticle during the off season.

Here’s my spot. Big crop field surrounded by hardwoods. Far side of field is 650 yards and deer sometimes enter the far side. Most of my shots are under 200 though cause I set up the blind to be 200 yards and closer to key entry points.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I currently dial for elevation and hold for wind. If I don't have enough time to dial the elevation, I'm just not taking the shot. That may change as I improve my shooting skills. For now my longest shot at game was 400 yards on a coues deer from my tripod. In that position I could have made it from 500-600 without much trouble.

Here’s my spot. Big crop field surrounded by hardwoods. Far side of field is 650 yards and deer sometimes enter the far side. Most of my shots are under 200 though cause I set up the blind to be 200 yards and closer to key entry points.

I say this to everyone who box stand hunts past 150 yards and I promise you I have no financial incentive to say this. But do you use a Gamechanger bag in that stand? Because if not, get one and never look back.

 

[Shortschaf]

Dial elevation and hold wind. Sometimes dial wind too
I have never been in a scenario where the reticle itself or the inability to dial was the point of failure

Im comfortable holding too. Its just not as precise initially, and making follow up corrections are much much more difficult for me if I didn't start with a fine aiming point.

 

[Quicksilver]

I currently dial for elevation and hold for wind. If I don't have enough time to dial the elevation, I'm just not taking the shot. That may change as I improve my shooting skills. For now my longest shot at game was 400 yards on a coues deer from my tripod. In that position I could have made it from 500-600 without much trouble.

I say this to everyone who box stand hunts past 150 yards and I promise you I have no financial incentive to say this. But do you use a Gamechanger bag in that stand? Because if not, get one and never look back.

Game changer with heavy fill, even a tripod as a rear support. Made a lot of awkward shots with this combo

 

[Macintosh]

I’ve never felt comfortable taking shots at real dialing range when its dark enough to not be able to see the turret, so not an issue for me.

I think holdovers work well especially if you practice them, but range at which I can be accurate enough is largely dependent on the exact reticle and how fine the graduations are. With a 1-mil mil dot I am only good on a little whitetail to about 350 yards using holdovers unless the exact range solution happens to fall right on a dot. With a .2mil hashed prs reticle I can be a lot more precise. I think you just have to do some timed drills for yourself and find what works for you and what your personal limitations need to be. I actually think shooting casual PRS or NRL style matches is a great way to get grooved into your reticle and scope and develop a sense of what works best under various situations because its timed and under some pressure, and you are likely to be forced to find and use “odd” solutions (like 4.7mils as opposed to 5 mils) under pressure.

 

[JJ1179]

Holdovers all the way! In a real life hunting scenario you often don’t have time to range your game, dial in, and make the shot. I know - I’ve tried. Get comfortable with your holdovers and range spots where you’re hunting. If you’re on “10X” power and know distances, just use your holdovers and make the shots. I shoot a Z5 and love my holdovers. I’ve killed several deer and elk over 500 yards with holdovers and zero dialing. Just my opinion. You should do what’s comfortable and most effective for you.

 

[Drenalin]

My mind can't do enough things at one time to use the holdover reticle, at least in the instances I've tried it. But with dedicated practice, it should be doable.

 

[General RE LEE]

Holdovers all the way! In a real life hunting scenario you often don’t have time to range your game, dial in, and make the shot. I know - I’ve tried. Get comfortable with your holdovers and range spots where you’re hunting. If you’re on “10X” power and know distances, just use your holdovers and make the shots. I shoot a Z5 and love my holdovers. I’ve killed several deer and elk over 500 yards with holdovers and zero dialing. Just my opinion. You should do what’s comfortable and most effective for you.

The Zeiss reticle I am using is a SFP 1 MOA at 16X so values are doubled at 8x. Thankfully I have places to practice this reticle but I doubt I would ever use 16x to get the 1 MOA value. In a hunting scenario I will use 8X so it is essentially a 2 MOA reticle. I was dry firing practice to targets out back at 4X which would make the values 4 MOA. At 300 yards its just a very small hold over at 4x.

 

[Reburn]

Personally,
I use Zeiss rangefinder binos and range and dial everything. I have never missed an opportunity to shoot. Hold for wind.

 

[Rich M]

I'm not set up for long range shooting but have BDC scope on 1 rifle.

 

[MidGAHunter]

Dial elevation, hold wind. The beauty of a FFP scope is I can do this at any magnification (depending on the reticle, of course).

 

[Fire_9]

The Zeiss reticle I am using is a SFP 1 MOA at 16X so values are doubled at 8x. Thankfully I have places to practice this reticle but I doubt I would ever use 16x to get the 1 MOA value. In a hunting scenario I will use 8X so it is essentially a 2 MOA reticle. I was dry firing practice to targets out back at 4X which would make the values 4 MOA. At 300 yards its just a very small hold over at 4x.

This stuff can be done but I really think it's just asking for problems. Dial elevation and hold wind is the best answer

 

[JJ1179]

This stuff can be done but I really think it's just asking for problems. Dial elevation and hold wind is the best answer

Maybe I am naive or missing something here, so please explain how this is “the best answer”. I truly am asking to learn more.

Let’s say your glassing a ridge line and you see 4 or 5 elk come through a clearing and you know that clearing is at 373 yards, so you dial in for your shot, only to find that the elk have moved and are now at a clearing which is 452 yards away. So, once again you’re trying to quickly dial in, find the elk, and acquire them in your scope so you can take a shot before they move again.

How is that “the best answer”? Why not use a holdover reticle and know your distances for each pin or crosshair on your scope and be able to stay on the game and take the shot when it presents Itself? Seems like a lot more going on with all the dialing in and hoping they don’t move strategy.

Granted, if they are just hanging around and grazing and seem content, I agree that dialing in would be effective. But, in my experience that’s only about 50% of the time at best.

 

[Fire_9]

Maybe I am naive or missing something here, so please explain how this is “the best answer”. I truly am asking to learn more.

Let’s say your glassing a ridge line and you see 4 or 5 elk come through a clearing and you know that clearing is at 373 yards, so you dial in for your shot, only to find that the elk have moved and are now at a clearing which is 452 yards away. So, once again you’re trying to quickly dial in, find the elk, and acquire them in your scope so you can take a shot before they move again.

How is that “the best answer”? Why not use a holdover reticle and know your distances for each pin or crosshair on your scope and be able to stay on the game and take the shot when it presents Itself? Seems like a lot more going on with all the dialing in and hoping they don’t move strategy.

Granted, if they are just hanging around and grazing and seem content, I agree that dialing in would be effective. But, in my experience that’s only about 50% of the time at best.

I think that is an issue that is often exaggerated. You're coming off your rifle to range them anyways, what's an extra second to move your dial? Yes it's handy to be able to hold over but in my opinion it's almost never going to be superior to dialing. But I can see why people would go that route if there was no wind and you are shooting a FFP scope. It's the 'well on 8x my subtensions are double what they are at 16x' that I think is an absolute terrible idea. The last thing we need is another thing to think about when shooting 5-600 yards and beyond.

 

[JJ1179]

I think that is an issue that is often exaggerated. You're coming off your rifle to range them anyways, what's an extra second to move your dial? Yes it's handy to be able to hold over but in my opinion it's almost never going to be superior to dialing. But I can see why people would go that route if there was no wind and you are shooting a FFP scope. It's the 'well on 8x my subtensions are double what they are at 16x' that I think is an absolute terrible idea. The last thing we need is another thing to think about when shooting 5-600 yards and beyond.

See, if you’re glassing animals and already know ranges at the areas you’re glassing, you’re going straight to the scope - no ranging necessary. One less step. And, I’m not doubling anything or doing any math in my head. I already have dope charts for each power and each pin and I already know what my effective ranges are. There is no way dialing in a scope can be faster than using holdovers. Just my opinion.

 

[Fire_9]

See, if you’re glassing animals and already know ranges at the areas you’re glassing, you’re going straight to the scope - no ranging necessary. One less step. And, I’m not doubling anything or doing any math in my head. I already have dope charts for each power and each pin and I already know what my effective ranges are. There is no way dialing in a scope can be faster than using holdovers. Just my opinion.

I never said anything about being faster. I said better which means more accurate. Sure if you know all your ranges, know your drops, and there's no wind, holdovers could be pretty effective. But I also think the argument could be made that if you don't have the extra couple seconds to dial your scope, it's probably not a shot you should take anyways