Lobbying Wyoming game and fish negatively affecting non-resident elk hunters

[tdhanses]

Western non-resident hunters , fngs, and lurkers I know your out there or looking at this thread and frustrated. You have had goals of a western hunting trip and looked at the insanity. The first thing I would like to say is there are some great people on this sight helpful ,generously willing to share info etc. Dont kid yourself there are also some that feel 1 non-resident in there state is too many . You are viewed as the enemy, competition. They do not want non-resident hunting. I respect their opinion.
Non -resident western hunters do we have a leg to stand on , bargining chips, negotiating power ? Are we working from a position of strength or weakness ? Obviously MONEY is the best one. Most western game/fish departments rely heavily on non-resident license fees. At what point and how do we use that bargining chip ?Other thoughts on Federal land use ? Contacting state senators / congressman involved in office of tourism. There must be lawyers/ politicians looking at this situation scratching their heads looking at legal angles. Throwing thoughts /options out there. Any other western non-resident hunters have any ideas

As far as tag allocations go, NR have no legal standing and it is a privilege, we have to accept that first. There will never be a boycott large enough that tags go unsold and a financial impact is felt. In the end you have to accept these facts and determine if it’s worth your money or not to be in the NR game of hunting.

As far as public lands go, there will be some deterioration of support from individuals that do not live in states with vast holdings, at some point we’ll see a reduction especially as fewer people utilize the resource, hunters seem to have the loudest voice on these issues but you’ll see over time that voice shrink. There are millions of acres of public not used by other recreational users.

If public lands do sell at some point it might be worth investing with a group of people into an LOA and pool investor money together to buy large tracts of land when sold, it’ll reduce resident property values as there are millions of acres that could be sold off in the future, 500 investors at $50k a pop could invest $25 million into a property for their recreation and also have a small slice for building a cabin.

I’m part of an LOA in CO that covers 17,000 acres that is gated, I can see this model expanding both on current private holdings and into public if sold.

Pretty nice having access to this without having to spend millions.

 

[diamond10x]

careful....Buzz is watching you.......

He’s not the only one I’m referring to… theres several members on here that I can think of off the top of my head that supported this change all in. Like those typical politicians we all can’t stand, “rules for thee, not for me”.

 

[wapitibob]

I forgot one other proposal 6) increase minimal land ownership of non - residents from 160 acres to who knows what before getting into resident license pool

Probably should have kept this one forgotten. NR landowners don't draw tags from the resident pool.

 

[diamond10x]

As far as public lands go, there will be some deterioration of support from individuals that do not live in states with vast holdings, at some point we’ll see a reduction especially as fewer people utilize the resource, hunters seem to have the loudest voice on these issues but you’ll see over time that voice shrink. There are millions of acres of public not used by other recreational users.

This is similar to what I see happening. Lands being sold off as they don’t get used but by a few people and there’s no funding for them. Why would NR hunters support public lands in other states that basically doesn’t allow them to draw tags? When I say this I’m not singling out WY either but when people can’t justify spending money to maybe have a tiny chance at hunting another state once or twice in a lifetime, all these lands and animals will be gone and there will be nobody to blame but the greedy mentality of wanting to have your cake and eat it all to yourself.

 

[tdhanses]

This is similar to what I see happening. Lands being sold off as they don’t get used but by a few people and there’s no funding for them. Why would NR hunters support public lands in other states that basically doesn’t allow them to draw tags? When I say this I’m not singling out WY either but when people can’t justify spending money to maybe have a tiny chance at hunting another state once or twice in a lifetime, all these lands and animals will be gone and there will be nobody to blame but the greedy mentality of wanting to have your cake and eat it all to yourself.

I agree, it will happen all over the west in time, wasn’t long ago it almost happened.

Hunting leases on big tracts of land are the future of hunting in the west, in the end most NR and R will not have a place to hunt unless they can afford to invest or join in. Sportsman For Wildlife and Big Game Forever had a big push towards this model about 12-15 years ago and had many politicans in the west on their side, it’ll eventually come back around with more traction and those of us that were against it will be for it.

And it all can be done with support from other groups, just keep major hiking, utv, fishing etc areas public but that leaves roughly 80% of public open for sale.

 

[KHNC]

This is similar to what I see happening. Lands being sold off as they don’t get used but by a few people and there’s no funding for them. Why would NR hunters support public lands in other states that basically doesn’t allow them to draw tags? When I say this I’m not singling out WY either but when people can’t justify spending money to maybe have a tiny chance at hunting another state once or twice in a lifetime, all these lands and animals will be gone and there will be nobody to blame but the greedy mentality of wanting to have your cake and eat it all to yourself.

This goes in line with corner crossing too. If its locked up , why should a NR support it? Eventually we will cut back im sure.

 

[tdhanses]

This goes in line with corner crossing too. If its locked up , why should a NR support it? Eventually we will cut back im sure.

I still don’t see how corner crossing is really a NR interest when there are so many places to hunt you don’t have to do this, these checker boarded areas should be sold off and then it’s no longer an issue.

 

[AaronMColeman]

Man once you really lay it all out there, not sure it’s worth it just for hunting

As a resident of WY, I moved here a few years ago largely because of the hunting. We are looked at as not quite NR but not quite resident. So Wyoming already has an influx of us out of staters becoming residents so it's almost the same as NR tags. I don't know the answer, but it's not just NR vs resident, even among residents there is resentment toward the "Rich Californians" moving into their hunting areas. I get it, it's a tough nut to crack...but I absolutely love hunting and hope that we don't get in our own way and ruin it.

 

[tdhanses]

As a resident of WY, I moved here a few years ago largely because of the hunting. We are looked at as not quite NR but not quite resident. So Wyoming already has an influx of us out of staters becoming residents so it's almost the same as NR tags. I don't know the answer, but it's not just NR vs resident, even among residents there is resentment toward the "Rich Californians" moving into their hunting areas. I get it, it's a tough nut to crack...but I absolutely love hunting and hope that we don't get in our own way and ruin it.

Yeah the born and raised residents of most western states do not like people moving to their state and constantly complain about it, then at times the new residents feel they are the same as born and raised and jump on their bandwagon not realizing they are the red headed step child that many residents want to leave their state, plus now they are taking born and raised resident tags.

 

[KHNC]

I still don’t see how corner crossing is really a NR interest when there are so many places to hunt you don’t have to do this, these checker boarded areas should be sold off and then it’s no longer an issue.

Well thats definitely my point for sure. WHy should it even be public if its locked up for access to the public. Force the people locking it up to buy it or sell with mandatory access to someone else.

 

[Bull_n_heat]

I know nobody owes me nothing ,I'm not a resident, don't pay Wyoming taxes, and should sell my house, change jobs,uproot my family and move to Wyoming to hunt (really?)

Wyoming residents don't pay Wyoming taxes either - what a bargain!

This is in jest of course - I just don't think this is a defensible position for residents to blame their problems on nonresidents for.

 

[diamond10x]

As a resident of WY, I moved here a few years ago largely because of the hunting. We are looked at as not quite NR but not quite resident. So Wyoming already has an influx of us out of staters becoming residents so it's almost the same as NR tags. I don't know the answer, but it's not just NR vs resident, even among residents there is resentment toward the "Rich Californians" moving into their hunting areas. I get it, it's a tough nut to crack...but I absolutely love hunting and hope that we don't get in our own way and ruin it.

I don’t doubt it one bit. I love hunting to and come from a long line of NR hunters, and it absolutely makes me furious how in a lot of states R’s get so mad about NR hunters drawing tags and hunting, and their complaint is they can’t even draw their own tags. Well maybe quit trying to draw the best unit every year and just go hunting. I hunt multiple states a year and have never once drawn a coveted unit tag, I choose to hunt every year so I’m ready for when I do get that tag I’ve dreamed about. Unfortunately that’s not everyone’s outlook, I would guess a majority residents, NOT ALL, have the mentality that if they don’t get the best tag they aren’t hunting. Which leads us to where we are now.

I’m all for R’s having a majority of tags and a cap on NR hunter allocations but 10% and then a majority has to be through an outfitter is asinine. This is the downfall of hunting, it’s not social media or anything like that. It’s this right here. dividing and discriminating against ourselves for toddler like reasons and the mentality that everyone needs a trophy.

 

[Fatcamp]

Lack of proximity to the vast majority of the country where non-residents are driving from is the major factor there.

I don't think so.

 

[Laramie]

I don’t doubt it one bit. I love hunting to and come from a long line of NR hunters, and it absolutely makes me furious how in a lot of states R’s get so mad about NR hunters drawing tags and hunting, and their complaint is they can’t even draw their own tags. Well maybe quit trying to draw the best unit every year and just go hunting. I hunt multiple states a year and have never once drawn a coveted unit tag, I choose to hunt every year so I’m ready for when I do get that tag I’ve dreamed about. Unfortunately that’s not everyone’s outlook, I would guess a majority residents, NOT ALL, have the mentality that if they don’t get the best tag they aren’t hunting. Which leads us to where we are now.

I’m all for R’s having a majority of tags and a cap on NR hunter allocations but 10% and then a majority has to be through an outfitter is asinine. This is the downfall of hunting, it’s not social media or anything like that. It’s this right here. dividing and discriminating against ourselves for toddler like reasons and the mentality that everyone needs a trophy.

I hear where you are coming from but there is some perspective you should consider. I grew up in Wyoming but am now a non-resident. I have drawn a particular tag 3 times in the last 10 years that my resident family and friends have struggled to draw. 2 of my friends still haven't drawn it. It isn't some widely coveted tag, but a standard LQ tag that most nonresidents haven't chased. That gets really frustrating for residents. 90/10 is consistent with most western states and right now it really makes sense as tag numbers are considerably lower due to population struggles. I hate that I won't be able to draw Wyoming as often but as tags lower it is just something I have to live with. If you want to quit donating to the WG&F, maybe choose to send a couple bucks towards the organizations trying to fix the population issues.

To address your original title, keep in mind Wyoming continues to be very generous with their elk tags. The recent changes on effect the big 5, not elk deer and antelope.

 

[AaronMColeman]

Yeah the born and raised residents of most western states do not like people moving to their state and constantly complain about it, then at times the new residents feel they are the same as born and raised and jump on their bandwagon not realizing they are the red headed step child that many residents want to leave their state, plus now they are taking born and raised resident tags.

I totally get it.

I moved to Wyoming because I love Wyoming, I don't want to change anything. I was born inside the boarders of another state (I had zero control over this by the way). I was raised in that state (I had very little control over this as my parents had jobs in state and I was a kid so I sorta had to live with them). As soon as I could I made a plan and moved my family to where we want to be. We are not all bad guys I guess...sorry for taking the resident tags (I only hunt a general tag for elk that I grab from the grocery store a couple days before season opener).

It is a bit of a sore spot for us transplants and for the born and raised. Whatever, at the end of the day we hunt together and all enjoy this amazing state.

 

[tdhanses]

I hear where you are coming from but there is some perspective you should consider. I grew up in Wyoming but am now a non-resident. I have drawn a particular tag 3 times in the last 10 years that my resident family and friends have struggled to draw. 2 of my friends still haven't drawn it. It isn't some widely coveted tag, but a standard LQ tag that most nonresidents haven't chased. That gets really frustrating for residents. 90/10 is consistent with most western states and right now it really makes sense as tag numbers are considerably lower due to population struggles. I hate that I won't be able to draw Wyoming as often but as tags lower it is just something I have to live with. If you want to quit donating to the WG&F, maybe choose to send a couple bucks towards the organizations trying to fix the population issues.

To address your original title, keep in mind Wyoming continues to be very generous with their elk tags. The recent changes on effect the big 5, not elk deer and antelope.

Did you draw it because it is a unit with limited access, therefore many NR don’t try? If half the tags went to R would it really increase their odds or is it an issue of too many R’s want to hunt a unit that maybe they have access to more ground in the unit. Just trying to understand why it’s harder for a R to draw vs NR, has to be a unique situation where it’s just a unit NR shy from but R don’t. how many NR tags are there?

From the outside looking in it sounds like even if there were no NR tags R opportunities wouldn’t really increase.

 

[diamond10x]

I hear where you are coming from but there is some perspective you should consider. I grew up in Wyoming but am now a non-resident. I have drawn a particular tag 3 times in the last 10 years that my resident family and friends have struggled to draw. 2 of my friends still haven't drawn it. It isn't some widely coveted tag, but a standard LQ tag that most nonresidents haven't chased. That gets really frustrating for residents. 90/10 is consistent with most western states and right now it really makes sense as tag numbers are considerably lower due to population struggles. I hate that I won't be able to draw Wyoming as often but as tags lower it is just something I have to live with. If you want to quit donating to the WG&F, maybe choose to send a couple bucks towards the organizations trying to fix the population issues.

To address your original title, keep in mind Wyoming continues to be very generous with their elk tags. The recent changes on effect the big 5, not elk deer and antelope.

To your first part, I get their frustration but residents do get 3 or 4 choices if I am not mistaken. It’s sort of funny you bring that up, there seems to be two sets of residents in WY and I’m not knocking either, just my observations from talking and reading. Either they have no problem drawing tags across the board as well as OIL and the there are the ones who can’t sniff a tag in a low demand LQ unit let alone a OIL. I think that’s an issue with F&G that should be looked into and not just all placed at the blame of NR hunters which has been done across the board.

If F&G came and put into law that the money spent for points and tags on big 5 followed those specific animals, I don’t know that I would be that torn about the new move. Something about my money just going to the general fund and not the animal irritates me, and it’s that way in all states across the board as far as I know.

To your second, yes you are correct it is only for the big 5 (technically 4 cause grizzly season ain’t coming back). It is just a matter of time before it’s all species just like NM’s silly system.

 

[tdhanses]

Wyoming residents don't pay Wyoming taxes either - what a bargain!

This is in jest of course - I just don't think this is a defensible position for residents to blame their problems on nonresidents for.

Truthfully the taxes are one reason I could see more moving, hunting would just be a bonus. For many that savings alone could be an outfitted hunt every year.

 

[Laramie]

Did you draw it because it is a unit with limited access, therefore many NR don’t try? If half the tags went to R would it really increase their odds or is it an issue of too many R’s want to hunt a unit that maybe they have access to more ground in the unit. Just trying to understand why it’s harder for a R to draw vs NR, has to be a unique situation where it’s just a unit NR shy from but R don’t. how many NR tags are there?

From the outside looking in it sounds like even if there were no NR tags R opportunities wouldn’t really increase.

I was able to draw it because it was a fairly low preference point area for non-residents but it is fairly close to a population center so it attracts more demand from residents. There are many areas and species that non-residents can draw easier than residents currently. I'm not sure 90/10 fixes, or even really addresses the issue, but it does remove some of the blame.

 

[Gutshot007]

Non-resident western hunters I would imagine game/fish departments face pressure from residents and legislators . Maybe it's time game and fish hear more from non - residents. I know they have meetings/forums for discussion . Not sure how receptive they are ? State legislators crumble to the Feds for money all the time. Maybe the need to hear from who is paying the bill for their game departments even if you as a non-resident and cant vote at the polls but with your money