Lobbying Wyoming game and fish negatively affecting non-resident elk hunters

[LostArra]

Gutshot here is some light reading for you on the subject of NR licenses: https://scholarship.law.marquette.e...ferer=&httpsredir=1&article=1055&context=mulr

Might want to go down and read pages 366-371. Many court cases are cited if you want to research them.

Interesting link. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Southforkguy]

Still trying to finger out what the Big 5 are. I got sheep, goat, moose, bison and ....?

 

[tdhanses]

Still trying to finger out what the Big 5 are. I got sheep, goat, moose, bison and ....?

Grizzly

 

[Rifleman86]

I feel like this sums up my feelings on this issue…

NR hunters-“Hey resident hunters, we keep paying more for tags, keep facing decreasing draw odds and outfitter preference, fund the majority of your F&G budget, have zero say in your legislative process, yet have stood by you time and time again at the federal level to protect public land and access… Can we at least agree to stand together as hunters not let anything worse for us than it is currently? We want our kids to be able to enjoy some of the same awesome opportunities we had, and keep fighting for the wild places and wild things we all love.”

Resident hunters-“F@ck you you entitled assholes! Quit trying to tell us what to do! All you NR are the root cause of all my states issues!!”

NR-

 

[Wyobohunter]

I feel like this sums up my feelings on this issue…

NR hunters-“Hey resident hunters, we keep paying more for tags, keep facing decreasing draw odds and outfitter preference, fund the majority of your F&G budget, have zero say in your legislative process, yet have stood by you time and time again at the federal level to protect public land and access… Can we at least agree to stand together as hunters not let anything worse for us than it is currently? We want our kids to be able to enjoy some of the same awesome opportunities we had, and keep fighting for the wild places and wild things we all love.”

Resident hunters-“F@ck you you entitled assholes! Quit trying to tell us what to do! All you NR are the root cause of all my states issues!!”

NR-

Maybe your state should enact tag preference for the citizens of your state.

 

[Bighorner]

There are loud voices spouting bs on both sides.

The current system people have bought into is based on animal populations we no longer support. It is broken and requires a new direction to be sustainable.

Demand has it paced supply to such an extent that tags prices are pretty much justified by the fact that we see it taking longer and longer to draw certain tags because of over demand. Ie point creep.

The task force as been asked time and time again to look at things from a long term perspective, not a quick five year fix. In that light you have a downward trend in supply and a steep upward tend in demand.

As a non resident you have lost more sheep and moose tags to population decline than you have to recent legalization, but I havent heard a word about that from the non residents. Please stop and read that again. Its important.

I'm not going to comment on the sale of federal land. At this point it dosent deserve a response from what I can see.

 

[bsnedeker]

As a non resident you have lost more sheep and moose tags to population decline than you have to recent legalization, but I havent heard a word about that from the non residents. Please stop and read that again. Its important..

And with this you just won the thread. Take that paragraph, put it as a sticky at the top, and close this dumpster fire down.



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[Rifleman86]

Maybe your state should enact tag preference for the citizens of your state.

We do. I didn’t even have to purchase a license or a tag to shoot a deer on my own land this year. I don’t necessarily agree with that (the state owns the wildlife, not me.) But I happily acknowledge a NR likely paid my way.

There are loud voices spouting bs on both sides.

The current system people have bought into is based on animal populations we no longer support. It is broken and requires a new direction to be sustainable.

Demand has it paced supply to such an extent that tags prices are pretty much justified by the fact that we see it taking longer and longer to draw certain tags because of over demand. Ie point creep.

The task force as been asked time and time again to look at things from a long term perspective, not a quick five year fix. In that light you have a downward trend in supply and a steep upward tend in demand.

As a non resident you have lost more sheep and moose tags to population decline than you have to recent legalization, but I havent heard a word about that from the non residents. Please stop and read that again. Its important.

I'm not going to comment on the sale of federal land. At this point it dosent deserve a response from what I can see.

I 100% agree that habitat and access is the #1 issues facing all of us and we need to work together to improve it. For the past century or so we have, and It’s the reason any of us have hunting opportunity at all.

But pointing the finger at NR hunters and reducing their opportunities is the easy button for state legislatures. In the long run it’s going to hurt us all.

 

[Bighorner]

We do. I didn’t even have to purchase a license or a tag to shoot a deer on my own land this year. I don’t necessarily agree with that (the state owns the wildlife, not me.) But I happily acknowledge a NR likely paid my way.

I 100% agree that habitat and access is the #1 issues facing all of us and we need to work together to improve it. For the past century or so we have, and It’s the reason any of us have hunting opportunity at all.

But pointing the finger at NR hunters and reducing their opportunities is the easy button for state legislatures. In the long run it’s going to hurt us all.

I dont know your situation or where you are from. I dont know if you were expecting to draw one of those tag based on your preference points or if you have actually done the math on your likely hood of randomly drawing a goat. As a resident I can say with absolute certainty that I dont plan to ever draw a goat moose, or sheep, the numbers are not in my favor. You cant win if you dont play so I with continue to throw in. I suggest you put pen to paper and see just how much you have really lost on terms of chance for you situation. Not just how many tags your pool lost, but the prior and current chances of actually drawing based on your own sistuatuon. Off the cuff I'm betting you went from around 0.1 percent chance to 0.5 percent chance, which in the grand scheme of life is no change. This whole thing has been spun so the task force is seen in a good light by citizens for what may or may not be yet to come out of the task force.

 

[BuzzH]

We do. I didn’t even have to purchase a license or a tag to shoot a deer on my own land this year. I don’t necessarily agree with that (the state owns the wildlife, not me.) But I happily acknowledge a NR likely paid my way.

I 100% agree that habitat and access is the #1 issues facing all of us and we need to work together to improve it. For the past century or so we have, and It’s the reason any of us have hunting opportunity at all.

But pointing the finger at NR hunters and reducing their opportunities is the easy button for state legislatures. In the long run it’s going to hurt us all.

So how many points do you have for moose and sheep in Wyoming?

 

[Rifleman86]

So how many points do you have for moose and sheep in Wyoming?

0, I got in the game too late, I have an almost 0 percent change of drawing a tag before the changes and certainly don’t have a chance now. Not worth my money to put in for a tag unfortunately. I don’t deserve the same opportunity as a resident and wouldn’t expect it, but why would I care about sheep or goats if I have no chance of ever hunting them?

The trend will continue with deer elk and antelope however. The states have 0 incentive but to reduce opportunities while increasing cost. In the long run that’s fewer and fewer people who care about public lands, habitat, and conservation on a national level.

In the long run it’s not going to work out well for any of us.

 

[BuzzH]

0, I got in the game too late, I have an almost 0 percent change of drawing a tag before the changes and certainly don’t have a chance now. Not worth my money to put in for a tag unfortunately. I don’t deserve the same opportunity as a resident and wouldn’t expect it, but why would I care about sheep or goats if I have no chance of ever hunting them?

The trend will continue with deer elk and antelope however. The states have 0 incentive but to reduce opportunities while increasing cost. In the long run that’s fewer and fewer people who care about public lands, habitat, and conservation on a national level.

In the long run it’s not going to work out well for any of us.

Goats have no preference points in Wyoming, never have. I've applied for goats here for 22 years, will likely never draw, but I still care about them.

I would imagine you're like most in these threads, howling when you don't even apply.

 

[Rifleman86]

Goats have no preference points in Wyoming, never have.

I would imagine you're like most in these threads, howling when you don't even apply.

At this point you are being purposely obtuse. Of course I still care about wildlife I can’t hunt or don’t want to hunt, but acknowledging human nature, NR to play a role at the national level in conservation and a big part of that is they have had opportunities to experience what other states have to offer.

I wouldn’t give a shit about public lands, elk, or other wildlife if I never had the opportunity to hunt them. Thankfully I’ve had those opportunities and as such it’s made me an advocate for both them and the land they inhabit.

ETA I shouldn’t have said “not give a shit”, but because I have experienced hunting them, that makes me much more passionate about them.

When the NR opportunities dwindle to almost nothing, cost so much that only the wealthy elite can come and hunt, conservation will be in a sad state.

 

[Bighorner]

I feel like the disconnect between killing something and caring if it exists on the landscape is something that is pretty hard to get past.

I care about all the wildlife in Wyoming. I enjoy moose. We stop and look at them even though I have seen a thousand. Their value is not just a trophy. The same for everything else. They are not worthless if they are not being hunted.

That is the type of sentiment that gives NR a bad reputation. I get not everyone feels that way, or you may have misspoke, but it pretty much makes me want to end the converstation.

I dont know what your experience is, but they are a lot cooler when there are not in zoos.

 

[bsnedeker]

At this point you are being purposely obtuse. Of course I still care about wildlife I can’t hunt or don’t want to hunt, but acknowledging human nature, NR to play a role at the national level in conservation and a big part of that is they have had opportunities to experience what other states have to offer.

I wouldn’t give a shit about public lands, elk, or other wildlife if I never had the opportunity to hunt them. Thankfully I’ve had those opportunities and as such it’s made me an advocate for both them and the land they inhabit.

When the NR opportunities dwindle to almost nothing, cost so much that only the wealthy elite can come and hunt, conservation will be in a sad state.

I'm LITERALLY lol'ing at this post....do you actually read what you write or do you just randomnly hit they keyboard and hope for the best?

Second sentance: "of course I still care about wildlife I can't hunt"

VERY NEXT SENTANCE: "I wouldn't give a shit about public lands, elk, or other wildlife if I never had the opportunity to hunt them"

Your previous post: "but why would I care about sheep or goats if I have no chance of ever hunting them?"

The only reason you care about wildlife is because you want to kill it. Stop lying to yourself. You are motivated entirely by self interest and greed.

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[Rifleman86]

I feel like the disconnect between killing something and caring if it exists on the landscape is something that is pretty hard to get past.

I care about all the wildlife in Wyoming. I enjoy moose. We stop and look at them even though I have seen a thousand. Their value is not just a trophy. The same for everything else. They are not worthless if they are not being hunted.

That is the type of sentiment that gives NR a bad reputation. I get not everyone feels that way, or you may have misspoke, but it pretty much makes me want to end the converstation.

I dont know what your experience is, but they are a lot cooler when there are not in zoos.

See my edit post above. Originally it was poorly worded. Because I’ve experienced hunting them, it makes me appreciate them and want to protect them that much more

 

[Rifleman86]

I'm LITERALLY lol'ing at this post....do you actually read what you write or do you just randomnly hit they keyboard and hope for the best?

Second sentance: "of course I still care about wildlife I can't hunt"

VERY NEXT SENTANCE: "I wouldn't give a shit about public lands, elk, or other wildlife if I never had the opportunity to hunt them"

Your previous post: "but why would I care about sheep or goats if I have no chance of ever hunting them?"

The only reason you care about wildlife is because you want to kill it. Stop lying to yourself. You are motivated entirely by self interest and greed.

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Acknowledge the fact what I wrote was poorly worded. Just stating that giving more opportunities helps create more advocates. That’s pretty undeniable.

 

[bsnedeker]

Acknowledge the fact what I wrote was poorly worded. Just stating that giving more opportunities helps create more advocates. That’s pretty undeniable.

and when those "advocates" are motivated entirely by their own selfish desires look at what happens? They don't get their way and start advocating to sell off public lands.

I don't think we need those types of "advocates".

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[Bighorner]

I feel like we talking past each other.

I have only lived in Montana and Wyoming. I'm middle aged and have two young kids. I've hunted my entire life. We camp every year on forest service and BLM land, I've drawn a buffalo tag. My NR brother, who is an accomplished hunter, came along, without his own tag, and still says it was his favorite hunt of his life. I used an outfitter on that hunt. Bison are huge animals that live in thick grizz country. It as on FS ground and a great hunt because of the comradory. I go to montana every fall without a tag in my pocket to go along, for the comradory. My enjoyment is not predicated on getting a trophy. Each year I go out of state to hike wilderness simply because it it beautiful country and my phone dosent ring.

Where are you coming from?

 

[Rifleman86]

and when those "advocates" are motivated entirely by their own selfish desires look at what happens? They don't get their way and start advocating to sell off public lands.

I don't think we need those types of "advocates".

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Everyone is selfish to an extent unfortunately, that’s human nature, just like you want to keep the more opportunities limited to residents and bar nonresidents. That’s an understandable albeit selfish position.

We have to take a step back both as residents and nonresidents and keep the big picture in mind.