Lightweight scope that dials with zero stop, does it exist?

[slowelk]

I’d be damn surprised if any cds turret scope will allow an end user to dump 500 max elevation turret runs and shoot overlapping 10 shot groups At zero.

if it does, dump max Windage and do another500 end runs On the elevation turret and see if it returns to zero. My guess is within 30 minutes you can get a sub 1moa gun to shoot shotgun patterns.

Come again?

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

I’d be damn surprised if any cds turret scope will allow an end user to dump 500 max elevation turret runs and shoot overlapping 10 shot groups At zero.

if it does, dump max Windage and do another500 end runs On the elevation turret and see if it returns to zero. My guess is within 30 minutes you can get a sub 1moa gun to shoot shotgun patterns.

If I use an app and dial, I am dialing. If I use a custom tape and dial, I am dialing. If I use a custom turret and dial, I am dialing. No matter what, I am dialing. If a scope is going to fail, it is going to fail no matter the method that I use to dial the required elevation and/or windage.

What about scopes such as Nightforce, S&B, or SWFA? Are they also guaranteed to fail your tests since you can get custom turrets for them?

 

[Apollo117]

Come again?

I think I understand it enough to explain. This thread is about lightweight scopes that dial reliably. Two of the previous posts were about a Leupold V series scope. @Ndbowhunter was suggesting (correctly) that the Leupold scope wouldn't accurately dial.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

If I use an app and dial, I am dialing. If I use a custom tape and dial, I am dialing. If I use a custom turret and dial, I am dialing. No matter what, I am dialing. If a scope is going to fail, it is going to fail no matter the method that I use to dial the required elevation and/or windage.

What about scopes such as Nightforce, S&B, or SWFA? Are they also guaranteed to fail your tests since you can get custom turrets for them?

what?

Do you actually run a return to zero test on your scopes?

zero your gun with 10 shots

then dial up the turret to its maximum amount, then return the dial to its zero position

do this 50 times.

take a shot

then repeat the excercise 10 times

is your group the same as your initial 10 shot zero?

 

[Fatcamp]

what?

Do you actually run a return to zero test on your scopes?

zero your gun with 10 shots

then dial up the turret to its maximum amount, then return the dial to its zero position

do this 50 times.

take a shot

then repeat the excercise 10 times

is your group the same as your initial 10 shot zero?

Ya, we have never done that. We do have a CDS scope on a .300 that we check out to 600 and back that has worked well. As an 8# gun we aren't shooting a whole lot of rounds.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

Throw it on a 22lr and see how it hangs

most halfway decent 22lr’s will shoot .6moa 10 shot groups with cci standard.

Mines from 1936 is about .8” at 50 but even that lack of precision is Plenty to run rtzTall target and reticle cant test.

30 minutes of time and 3$ worth of ammo is revealing.

 

[Fatcamp]

I just don't see any reason to do that. 50 times? Why?

The scope does what it is intended to do. I realize it's not a professionals tool, but the CDS dial works as intended.

 

[Formidilosus]

I just don't see any reason to do that. 50 times? Why?

The scope does what it is intended to do. I realize it's not a professionals tool, but the CDS dial works as intended.

Except it doesn’t. If it fails in fifty shots/dials, it can and will fail on the very next shot. This idea that a causal hunter that doesn’t dial frequently can get away with a scope that isn’t robust and doesn’t dial consistently and correctly is a lie. The manufacturer didn’t build in a “obsolete by” round count.

People miss shots and wound animals all the time and just shrug it off as “that’s hunting”. But how do you/they know it wasn’t the scope failing on that shot? I guarantee you if lined up ten of those CDS equipped scopes and did what NDb wrote, you wouldn’t be trusting them for a single spin of the turret. That’s not even getting into them losing zero from side impacts.

 

[fightthenoise]

I guarantee you if lined up ten of those CDS equipped scopes and did what NDb wrote, you wouldn’t be trusting them for a single spin of the turret. That’s not even getting into them losing zero from side impacts.

What would you expect the results to be if you did this exercise with 10 NF’s or SWFA’s or any of the other gold standards for dialing? Would it surprise you if all 10 passed? At what failure rate would you be surprised? 1, 2, 3 out of 10? I’m not trying to make a point, just trying to gather information. Us normies just don’t have the sample size you guys have and I no longer get much from a post from a random guy that had 1 copy of a scope and it went well/poorly

 

[C Bow]

Please correct me if I am wrong but zero lock means that the scope is locked at what ever range you zero the scope. Then when you want to dial your scope to 400 yards you push in the button dial your scope to 400 yards and shoot. The zero lock only keeps your scope locked at the range you zeroed it. It was made so your dial would not get turned by accident. Am I misunderstanding?

 

[Formidilosus]

What would you expect the results to be if you did this exercise with 10 NF’s or SWFA’s or any of the other gold standards for dialing? Would it surprise you if all 10 passed? At what failure rate would you be surprised? 1, 2, 3 out of 10? I’m not trying to make a point, just trying to gather information. Us normies just don’t have the sample size you guys have and I no longer get much from a post from a random guy that had 1 copy of a scope and it went well/poorly

I’ve seen more than ten of multiple scopes, multiple times.


Personally I have checked several dozen SWFA 6x, 10x, 3-9x and 5-20x scopes for tracking, adjustments, RTZ, and zero retention with impacts. All were excellent in tracking, RTZ, and zero retention through impacts. The vast majority adjusted correctly within 1% at 10 mils. The worst was less than 2% error (1.8% IIRC). That’s .2 mils at 10 mils.

Nightforce NXS/ATACR/BEAST- lots. Though all mechanical things break, I have not seen a failed one.


It would be notable to me if you took 50 SWFA’s or 100 NF’s, shot them for a couple thousands rounds each, and had a single failure with either. I have seen multiple 1-6x and 3-9x SWFA’S, NXS and ATACR’s with truly obscene round counts and abuse.

 

[carter33]

What is the word on the street on the new Zeiss V4/V6 scopes in regards to tracking? I have mostly heard good things but they are relatively new. I am going to put a V4 on a .22LR trainer and will be dialing a lot.

 

[cooshunter]

@Formidilosus This is slightly off topic for this thread, but given all of the tracking issues with so many of the turreted scopes can you recommend some good non-turreted scopes that have a useful holdover reticle and will also hold zero?

 

[blacktail sniper]

I too chased that unicorn night force was way to dam heavy and had the vortex LH which was nice and light and had some success it just worried me. when it was all said and done ended up wit a Zeiss V6 3.5-18x50. put one on my 280ai and picked up another for my 6.5 SAUM mike building as a lightweight pack rifle. I can lose a few oz in my pack or around my midsection to help for sure lol

 

[Formidilosus]

What is the word on the street on the new Zeiss V4/V6 scopes in regards to tracking? I have mostly heard good things but they are relatively new. I am going to put a V4 on a .22LR trainer and will be dialing a lot.

They don’t like side impacts. I haven’t seen a really large number of V4’s or 6’s, but that’s because they didn’t show anything to warrant it. A 12-15” drop on the side, has a better than even chance of shifting the zero. FYI...

@Formidilosus This is slightly off topic for this thread, but given all of the tracking issues with so many of the turreted scopes can you recommend some good non-turreted scopes that have a useful holdover reticle and will also hold zero?

Well it’s not hard to find scopes that work. It’s just that most don’t. Once one understands and accepts that the vast majority of manufactures are building optics for one weekend a year hunters, it makes sense.

As for non dialing, they are pretty much going to be the same. NF, SWFA, Schmidt and Bender. I have seen decent results with Meopta scopes, their Artemis’s for sure. Trijicon Accupowers and Accupoints are generally decent, I.E., they are about what most think all scopes are. They generally hold zero, and actually adjust correctly for the most part, but they are not bombproof.
If I were looking for a scope to not dial, I would get an S&B with a mil reticle. Next would be probably a Trijicon Accupower with mil reticle, or Meopta with same.

 

[Reburn]

I just don't see any reason to do that. 50 times? Why?

The scope does what it is intended to do. I realize it's not a professionals tool, but the CDS dial works as intended.

It works until it doesn't. And at some point it won't. Chances are you will need a new scope before you need a new barrel and that is a shame. You also don't get to pick when it will fail and you can't look at it and tell it failed. That is truly scary when you have a monster in your sights. I prefer to have equipment I know will perform. There is enough problems with the guy behind the gun. I want the gun to be as bombproof as reasonable.

 

[Hoguer11]

I love mine

 

[Kimber7man]

@Formidilosus have you wrung out the new Vortex 30mm LHT yet? Thoughts?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus have you wrung out the new Vortex 30mm LHT yet? Thoughts?

I have not. A SFP scope isn’t real appealing. The couple of people I know that are solid, have not seen anything great from them.

 

[cba5003]

I went with zeiss V6 on my two long range rigs. One is a lightweight 280ai that will shoot out to 800 yards on deer and sheep.

I tried a swaro z5 and it’s sitting in the safe. I’ll probably sell it to some poor bastard who thinks swaro is the shiznit...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Jardo,
Cooper just built me a new backcountry since I had so many issues with my 7mmRM. Total pain but atleast they stuck by product. I changed it up to a 280ai for similar ballistics but no belted mag. I had swaro z3 4-12 x50 BDC on 7mmRM and took muley at 500 yards but felt like that was my max comfort with that scope. Would appreciate hearing more about your setup to be consistent out to 800 yards. Are you still happy with your zeiss V6? Assuming 3-15? Factory turret? Holding zero? I have been wanting to get into reloading but picked a terrible time to start. I am planning on trying Nosler 140g AB, any other suggestions. Thanks
Chris